Why is it unacceptable to criticize SWA?
10-29-2008, 05:56 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: SWA/FO
Posts: 309
Same thing happened at American in LIT. They however, didn't elect to go missed. We all know the outcome of that.
10-29-2008, 06:28 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,105
Side question ... does the flaps on a Boeing 737 "blow up" if the max extended airspeed is exceeded?
I only ask because I was on a SWA flight sitting right behind the wing ... and the flaps kept moving up, then back down, then back up ... this happened all the way down to final. I only noticed it because I was qual'd on the DC10 at the time and it has flap overspeed protection up to 220knots, and I was surprised to hear the hydraulics kick on and off.
-Fatty
I only ask because I was on a SWA flight sitting right behind the wing ... and the flaps kept moving up, then back down, then back up ... this happened all the way down to final. I only noticed it because I was qual'd on the DC10 at the time and it has flap overspeed protection up to 220knots, and I was surprised to hear the hydraulics kick on and off.
-Fatty
10-29-2008, 08:54 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 116
Yes, the 737 does have flap load relief or "blow-up" as you say, in the landing settings only. Flaps 30 or 40.
10-29-2008, 09:43 PM
#14
Avoiding Memphis
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: Intl Feeder Jet
Posts: 504
Are you defending the SWA practice of diving into an airport that everyone else considers closed? Or are you saying the only thing the AA guys did wrong was NOT go missed?
This is, I think, the crux of the OPs point - the perception (at least among the the other pilots groups) that SWA guys are ready to hang it out there, and ATC is willing to comply.
This might not be a bad thing - sometimes you have to say "I'm going in". The question is where does the lean forward attitude meet the unsafe attitude? Or does it?
Of course I could be way off base and this should just become another SWA bashfest or lovefest.
10-29-2008, 09:55 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 712
Fortl-
I appreciate and respect your post, it was respectful and was a great counter-argument to that specific story. I agree that the 3rd person revision of the story does not hold as much water as if it were 1st person. That is why I said upfront that it was indeed 3rd person.
As far as equipment on-board the aircraft, I don't know what they all had. However, if I saw an aircraft abort a takeoff due to some weather warning system they had, I would probably think twice before I blasted off myself.
As far as AA's decision to abort or taxi clear and SWA's decision to continue and takeoff.....I'm not condemming either, it just seems like a bi-polar outlook on safety vs mission.
Again, this is ALL 3rd person, I was not there, I did not see the weather, I'm just using this as an example.
I appreciate and respect your post, it was respectful and was a great counter-argument to that specific story. I agree that the 3rd person revision of the story does not hold as much water as if it were 1st person. That is why I said upfront that it was indeed 3rd person.
As far as equipment on-board the aircraft, I don't know what they all had. However, if I saw an aircraft abort a takeoff due to some weather warning system they had, I would probably think twice before I blasted off myself.
As far as AA's decision to abort or taxi clear and SWA's decision to continue and takeoff.....I'm not condemming either, it just seems like a bi-polar outlook on safety vs mission.
Again, this is ALL 3rd person, I was not there, I did not see the weather, I'm just using this as an example.
I have seen your posts before and am wondering why you continue to pick at swa? Either you have too much time on your hands or there is some jealousy going on. Just my opinion, but seems like your grasping for anything that puts some negative spin on swa. Don't you have anything better to do?
10-29-2008, 11:13 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 737 F/O
Posts: 500
I think the reason why SWA guys get a little bent when folks talk about us is because of all the lies and half truths.
Do u realize that WN has a FDAP program? It's on all of our -700's and on quite a few of the -300's. Basically the company sets parameters and we have to follow them. Explanations are sought for non compliance. All approaches are to be "stabilized" at 1000 ft agl, if not it's a mandatory go around. We fly the -700's using MASI speeds for flap settings. No speed brakes with flaps extended and the list goes on. It's not your fathers SWA.
We operate at cost index of 20, so if anything we're flying slower than others unless it's required by a SID/STAR. We will of course honor an ATC request for a speed increase.
The motto of SWA is "we work hard and we play harder" Nowhere in that phrase does it say "we break the rules and bend airplanes"
If you have some honest questions about how we operate, feel free to ask.
Do u realize that WN has a FDAP program? It's on all of our -700's and on quite a few of the -300's. Basically the company sets parameters and we have to follow them. Explanations are sought for non compliance. All approaches are to be "stabilized" at 1000 ft agl, if not it's a mandatory go around. We fly the -700's using MASI speeds for flap settings. No speed brakes with flaps extended and the list goes on. It's not your fathers SWA.
We operate at cost index of 20, so if anything we're flying slower than others unless it's required by a SID/STAR. We will of course honor an ATC request for a speed increase.
The motto of SWA is "we work hard and we play harder" Nowhere in that phrase does it say "we break the rules and bend airplanes"
If you have some honest questions about how we operate, feel free to ask.
10-29-2008, 11:51 PM
#17
Avoiding Memphis
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: Intl Feeder Jet
Posts: 504
I think the reason why SWA guys get a little bent when folks talk about us is because of all the lies and half truths.
Do u realize that WN has a FDAP program? It's on all of our -700's and on quite a few of the -300's. Basically the company sets parameters and we have to follow them. Explanations are sought for non compliance. All approaches are to be "stabilized" at 1000 ft agl, if not it's a mandatory go around. We fly the -700's using MASI speeds for flap settings. No speed brakes with flaps extended and the list goes on. It's not your fathers SWA.
We operate at cost index of 20, so if anything we're flying slower than others unless it's required by a SID/STAR. We will of course honor an ATC request for a speed increase.
The motto of SWA is "we work hard and we play harder" Nowhere in that phrase does it say "we break the rules and bend airplanes"
If you have some honest questions about how we operate, feel free to ask.
Do u realize that WN has a FDAP program? It's on all of our -700's and on quite a few of the -300's. Basically the company sets parameters and we have to follow them. Explanations are sought for non compliance. All approaches are to be "stabilized" at 1000 ft agl, if not it's a mandatory go around. We fly the -700's using MASI speeds for flap settings. No speed brakes with flaps extended and the list goes on. It's not your fathers SWA.
We operate at cost index of 20, so if anything we're flying slower than others unless it's required by a SID/STAR. We will of course honor an ATC request for a speed increase.
The motto of SWA is "we work hard and we play harder" Nowhere in that phrase does it say "we break the rules and bend airplanes"
If you have some honest questions about how we operate, feel free to ask.
I think what we are getting at here is a cultural thing, which is hard to nail down, especially with a lot of new hires.
10-30-2008, 01:20 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
SWA,best culture of any airline,bar none,all my personal experiences with them have been pleasant ones, I sense a lot of envy among those stuck in airlines with cultures that are less than employee friendly,the energy that goes into negatively posting on these boards may be better used to clean ones own house. my.02.
10-30-2008, 02:00 AM
#19
Avoiding Memphis
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: Intl Feeder Jet
Posts: 504
Nice Drnka post. I've done those myself.
It's the culture we are talking about - that of "push it" or not. No pleasantness or envy involved.
Anyway, I'm done - I've got no dog in this fight.
I'll let some SWA guys in here to defend themselves if they feel they need to.
It's the culture we are talking about - that of "push it" or not. No pleasantness or envy involved.
Anyway, I'm done - I've got no dog in this fight.
I'll let some SWA guys in here to defend themselves if they feel they need to.
10-30-2008, 04:00 AM
#20
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
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