AA 757 rolls off the end in ORD
10-28-2008, 03:07 PM
#73
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,033
A QRH should assist with the use of good judgment. It should never replace it.
When there's a statement that says the battery will only last for 30 minutes, that's a red flag if there was ever one.
10-28-2008, 03:14 PM
#74
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,033
No argument regarding USA Today, but the NTSB preliminary report does state continued flight with the battery switch in the BAT position . . . . an abnormal configuration to put it mildly.
10-28-2008, 03:19 PM
#75
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Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
...sorry... I couldn't resist!
10-28-2008, 03:47 PM
#76
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 390
In my scant 30 years of flying, it's common knowledge that if you're draining the battery and will eventually lose the stby buses you'd better get it on the ground at the nearest suitable ASAP. Sort of like landing before you run out of fuel.
When it comes out what the ground mechanics told the crew, I think that will be very interesting.
10-28-2008, 05:43 PM
#77
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,918
My guess is that they didn't realize the battery charger was disconnected, and that the battery was being drained, through being misled by the QRH. Which is not hard to do when faced with these kinds of situations. Very easy to monday morning quarterback if you weren't up there on that day. There is indeed a revision coming out to address this issue. Otherwise, I ask you this question: what professional crew would continue a cross country flight on battery power alone? Answer: none. For that reason, there is more to this story than meets the eye. Especially considering the fact that the CA was a highly respected and experienced 757/767 ground instructor for years.
10-28-2008, 07:22 PM
#78
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320A
Posts: 158
Trying to figure out what people were thinking is a waste of time. I can hardly figure out what I am thinking. Unless one of the people posting is one of the crew, we will never know what was thought, discussed or agreed upon in that situation. The one thing we can all agree on is that we all make decisions every time we strap the aircraft on and push up the power. In fact we all make those decision with the utmost sincerity and in fact bet our lives on the decisions every day.
Criticizing decisions people make, well that is a personal decision. We all benefit, however, from a discussion of what happened. "What if", or discussions of potential emergencies are part of the flying way of life. It is much better to talk about these things for the first time in our home, hotel room or hanger than in the cockpit.
With all that being said, only Fred Flinstone would continue flying only on battery power.
Criticizing decisions people make, well that is a personal decision. We all benefit, however, from a discussion of what happened. "What if", or discussions of potential emergencies are part of the flying way of life. It is much better to talk about these things for the first time in our home, hotel room or hanger than in the cockpit.
With all that being said, only Fred Flinstone would continue flying only on battery power.
10-29-2008, 08:30 AM
#80
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 54
Gentlemen:
I know that on United 757's, switching the Stand-by Power Selector to BAT will isolate the battery charger. Keep in mind, that not every carrier has their aircraft wired exactly the same. On our 757, the Main BAT and APU Bat are wired "in parallel" and we have 90 minutes of power in a "true" stand-by power situation. Not every A/C is the same.
Also keep in mind the fact that electrical anomalies are "sneaky" problems at best, especially when contactors have shorted on a relay or bus. As was previously stated, one never really knows in the cockpit, what relays, circuits or busses are powered and which aren't with some elctrical anomalies. The United B-767 diversion into Bogota is a prime example.
Yes, I'll agree that the Captain should have landed "at the nearest suitable airport" if he in fact, knew that he was down to stand-by power. The NTSB report states that "The flightcrew then reviewed the MAIN BATTERY CHARGER procedures referenced in the QRH". American apparently has a QRH procedure to address this problem and I'd be surprised if they just completely disregarded the QRH procedure and flew on. NONE of us were there and until the final NTSB report is issued, we probably won't know for sure.
I'm not defending a crew that I do not know and have not flown with but I have been on two NTSB accident investigation boards and am smart enough to know that "rushing to judgement" serves no one. A friend who just retired from American is sending me their QRH procedures. Maybe that will clear up some of the confusion.
Until proven guilty, I'll still buy the lads a pint.
G'Day Mates
I know that on United 757's, switching the Stand-by Power Selector to BAT will isolate the battery charger. Keep in mind, that not every carrier has their aircraft wired exactly the same. On our 757, the Main BAT and APU Bat are wired "in parallel" and we have 90 minutes of power in a "true" stand-by power situation. Not every A/C is the same.
Also keep in mind the fact that electrical anomalies are "sneaky" problems at best, especially when contactors have shorted on a relay or bus. As was previously stated, one never really knows in the cockpit, what relays, circuits or busses are powered and which aren't with some elctrical anomalies. The United B-767 diversion into Bogota is a prime example.
Yes, I'll agree that the Captain should have landed "at the nearest suitable airport" if he in fact, knew that he was down to stand-by power. The NTSB report states that "The flightcrew then reviewed the MAIN BATTERY CHARGER procedures referenced in the QRH". American apparently has a QRH procedure to address this problem and I'd be surprised if they just completely disregarded the QRH procedure and flew on. NONE of us were there and until the final NTSB report is issued, we probably won't know for sure.
I'm not defending a crew that I do not know and have not flown with but I have been on two NTSB accident investigation boards and am smart enough to know that "rushing to judgement" serves no one. A friend who just retired from American is sending me their QRH procedures. Maybe that will clear up some of the confusion.
Until proven guilty, I'll still buy the lads a pint.
G'Day Mates
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