rocketman3746

I just have a question and I wanted to get some opinions on the matter. I work for a regional right now, which is looking at upgrade times of 3-5 years, partially due to a very conservative upgrade policy, and partially because of the industry. I am also about 20% of the way up on the seniority list there. I have a chance to fly with another company as a military contractor, flying King Air 90's and 200's. Their upgrade time is 6-12 months, depending on your total time and their needs.

So my question is this, which time is going to be more attractive to a major airline, once they start hiring: 2000-3000 part 121 SIC in a Dash 8, or 1000 part 121 SIC and 1000-2000 part 91 PIC? By the way, I call the King Air time part 91 for lack of a better term. I'm not sure what military contractors operate under.

My final goal is to work for a major, but looking ahead to 3-5 years of barely making ends meet is discouraging. Is it really that much tougher to get into a major from outside the part 121 world?

USMCFLYR

Rocketman -
This is a great question. I can't give you an answer because I have no idea how the system would work but this is what I would **think** would be the answer. I look forward to hearing other's opinions on this.
Since gaining your ratings through hard work and dedication, then paying your **dues** instructing, and eventually flying cargo/freight and moving into the regionals seems to be the standard route to the majors they know what you have been doing. In this case - it would seem that -121 majors would expect you to have a lot of time in the -121 world and they understand that a majority of that time will be SIC. But at least you have been working within their system, doing the type of flying that they do, day in and day out, making decisions that -121 opeartors are expected to make.
If you were to gain a 1,000 hrs of PIC time in a King Air working for this military contractor and doing who knows what type of flying, under what type of conditions, then I would think that the major would be a lot less sure of your capabilities to work within THEIR system of flying.
Now if we were comparing 1,000 PIC to 2,000 SIC within similar -121 world companies then the answer would seem pretty sure which would be more desirable.
Good luck in your decision. Standby for some good advice!
USMCFLYR

Doug Masters

IMHO there is nothing more valuable than turbine/jet PIC.

Excel

About a year and a half ago, I was in a situation where I was flying pic jet for a pt91 operator, with the goal to get to the majors. I feel that you really do need to have a backround in 135 or 121 in order to make yourself marketable to the majors. There was no reason for me to go 121 so I can build SIC time for 3-5 years, when I could fly turbine pic 135, so I took a job as a captain flying jets 135. I am confident that I will be able to find a good job with a strong carrier even with zero 121 time. As stated above, turbine pic is the most valuable time that you can get, period. Since you have a good amount of 121 already, I wouldnt think that it would be a problem having your PIC time come from 91 flying...
In addition, taking a corporate job will open many doors for you. Think about the stability of the airlines today. You will be a captain on an extremely popular aircraft, and if in the future you get furloughed, you can always return to 91/135 and resume flying as a captain in a Kingair. I have a few type ratings that allow me to fly a total of 15 different models of corporate jets. Trust me, if in 10 years Im flying with a major and I get tossed to the curb, it will be infinately easier for me to find work outside of 121.
Take this for what it is, I have never worked for a 121 operator. But hopefully this give you something to think about. I would get that turbine PIC and market yourself as a captain, especially considering that you have the 121 experience.

SkyHigh

FO time in anything but the space shuttle is near worthless.

Part 135 turbine PIC is slightly better than FO time.

Jet part 135 PIC time is better than FO or 135 turbine time but falls short of any 121 PIC.

121 Jet PIC beats all.

When times are tuff and the majors have a pile of resumes to sift through you want to be a sitting part 121 RJ PIC or DC-9 or 737 PIC, have a four year degree and a spotless record.

Skyhigh

Sike

All that to make $35k/year at your first major airline!

Mason32

Do not forget that some majors during the last round of hiring were accepting SIC time, albeit almost twice the number of hours if it had been PIC, but they were accepting. What MANY of them also had was a restriction for something over 45,000 pounds... the King Air 90 & 200 will not fit the bill in those cases. Last I checked a Dash gr-eight will.

Led Zep

Go for the pay and the schedule. I had zero 121 experience prior to being hired at a 121 major.

Riddler

Or $28K at CAL.

dojetdriver

Valid point, but think about this. If the airlines put a premium on 121 SIC because it is more like "the kind of flying they do", then a single seat tactical jet pilot would NEVER get hired at a major. That kind of flying has NO resemblance what so ever to the 121 world. YES, I know it's the best training in the world. YES, I know that experience is very good and the individual that has it is way smarter than your average bear. And NO, I'm not starting the tired, boring, stale, worn out Mil vs. Civ debate so take a breath before you respond. To take it further, a corporate PIC would never get hired, a charter PIC would never get hired, etc.

The point being, if you are after resume fodder (not QOL), turbine PIC IS KING. Doesn't matter if it's single seat jet, mil IP, part 91/131 turbine, whatever. 121 SIC doesn't really mean much, unless the company has no requirement, and the applicant has some kind of "in".

If you were to sample the demographics at one "legacy" in particular that was known to hire pilots that had ZERO turbine PIC, I doubt that ANY of them just submitted their stuff on Airlineapps and got the call for interview/hire.