SWA getting the luv from ATC
08-20-2008, 09:51 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 737 f/o
Posts: 299
Did he cut you off on purpose or did he just not see you? I just find it hard to believe that anyone, whether its swa or whoever, would cut anyone off. So swa got ahead of you, big deal, happens all the time with all airlines so dont take it personal. Sounds like you just have a personal problem with swa or am I being too harsh?
08-20-2008, 10:07 PM
#62
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 737 f/o
Posts: 299
Perhaps he was expecting you to hold short??? Or, perhaps he thought you were taxing like American and would have plenty of space??? It was probably a miscommunication or misunderstanding, and not intentional. I can't imagine anyone trying to shoot the gap and possibly bend metal...
PS I was almost run over a couple of times by Alaska when I used to flight out SEA, but I don't think it was intentional.
PS I was almost run over a couple of times by Alaska when I used to flight out SEA, but I don't think it was intentional.
I want to re-explain the scenario so you can better understand what happened. It is not as simple as shooting a gap, the bad headwork happened way before that. We were cleared to taxi in front of the SWA flight who was at least 1000' back behind us. As we were taxiing North on B, I looked over my shoulder and saw SWA passing us doing about V1 -10 on the parallel taxiway. They were not instructed to do so and were not told to use that taxiway. In an attempt to hold our ground, my captain also sped up in disbelief that they were attempting to get ahead of us in this fashion. SWA switched to tower and called for takeoff well before the point to switch and "monitor". Tower, who was not paying attention to the race underneath them cleared them for takeoff as we both approached the throat of the 2 taxiways and the holdshort for 16L. SWA came from our right, crossed our nose on the way to the runway as we slammed on our brakes and yielded to them.
As far as getting "run-over" by Alaska....if it was in the same fashion as that dudes stunt then yes, they too are idiots. I couldn't really care who it was, it was wreckless, deliberate and wrong....period.
08-21-2008, 04:44 AM
#63
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Pilot
Posts: 40
>>>>In an attempt to hold our ground, my captain also sped up.....<<<<
Either your Captain should have kept his original speed because he thought it was the right and correct speed to taxi and so what if SWA got to the runway first ......or he should have taxied at his new speed to begin with because apparently he thought this new speed was an acceptable speed to taxi. If he thought it was perfectly ok to speed up, apparently he could have been taxiing faster to begin with. If he was taxiing so slowly that he decided to speed up when he saw SWA then I can't blame SWA at all. I have no problem taxiing a 737 at 25kts a long dry straight taxiway, meanwhile other guys are creeping along unnecessarily at 8 knots as if they are on ice. I see no speed limit signs on taxiways. Good for SWA. Perhaps if your Captain had not speeded up at the last second it wouldn't have been so close, but again -- if your Captain thought it was perfectly ok to speed up then, apparently he could have been going faster the whole time to begin with. Good for SWA.
Oh...and "V-1 - 10" and "we slammed on our brakes" are assurdly exagerrations. Wouldn't have been close if your Captain hadn't decided to speed up at the last minute.
Either your Captain should have kept his original speed because he thought it was the right and correct speed to taxi and so what if SWA got to the runway first ......or he should have taxied at his new speed to begin with because apparently he thought this new speed was an acceptable speed to taxi. If he thought it was perfectly ok to speed up, apparently he could have been taxiing faster to begin with. If he was taxiing so slowly that he decided to speed up when he saw SWA then I can't blame SWA at all. I have no problem taxiing a 737 at 25kts a long dry straight taxiway, meanwhile other guys are creeping along unnecessarily at 8 knots as if they are on ice. I see no speed limit signs on taxiways. Good for SWA. Perhaps if your Captain had not speeded up at the last second it wouldn't have been so close, but again -- if your Captain thought it was perfectly ok to speed up then, apparently he could have been going faster the whole time to begin with. Good for SWA.
Oh...and "V-1 - 10" and "we slammed on our brakes" are assurdly exagerrations. Wouldn't have been close if your Captain hadn't decided to speed up at the last minute.
Last edited by Mach 84; 08-21-2008 at 05:01 AM.
08-21-2008, 07:12 AM
#64
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: LCA, A&P, IA
Posts: 58
You're kind of like "that" guy who hogs the left lane on the highway doing the speed limit while everyone else is doing 5-10 above the limit and must pass you on the right. Then when we change lanes to pass you, you speed up to prevent us from passing you. Or you throw your hands up in disgust when we cut in front of you after we have already passed you. I LOVE THOSE GUYS. Not. Good for SWA. Sounds like if you weren't racing them they would've been gone before you even got to hold short of the runway. Thanks for 7 useless pages from this thread.
08-21-2008, 07:41 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 712
I want to re-explain the scenario so you can better understand what happened. It is not as simple as shooting a gap, the bad headwork happened way before that. We were cleared to taxi in front of the SWA flight who was at least 1000' back behind us. As we were taxiing North on B, I looked over my shoulder and saw SWA passing us doing about V1 -10 on the parallel taxiway. They were not instructed to do so and were not told to use that taxiway. In an attempt to hold our ground, my captain also sped up in disbelief that they were attempting to get ahead of us in this fashion. SWA switched to tower and called for takeoff well before the point to switch and "monitor". Tower, who was not paying attention to the race underneath them cleared them for takeoff as we both approached the throat of the 2 taxiways and the holdshort for 16L. SWA came from our right, crossed our nose on the way to the runway as we slammed on our brakes and yielded to them.
As far as getting "run-over" by Alaska....if it was in the same fashion as that dudes stunt then yes, they too are idiots. I couldn't really care who it was, it was wreckless, deliberate and wrong....period.
As far as getting "run-over" by Alaska....if it was in the same fashion as that dudes stunt then yes, they too are idiots. I couldn't really care who it was, it was wreckless, deliberate and wrong....period.
08-21-2008, 09:12 AM
#66
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 737 f/o
Posts: 299
Yep , you guys nailed it on the head, we were driving in the left lane, purposely slowing down traffic. So why even have labled taxiways and ground control if we're just going to self motivate and use the entire ramp for whatever we like? Maybe next time if the duty runway has a line, we'll just self motivate and use a different one without asking. And yes, V1-10 was an exageration, I thought that was obvious.
Fact of the matter is I was there, I saw it and I stand by what the captain did. You were not there, you did not see it and are trying to piece it together from reading about it. Just like reading about a mishap and armchair quarterbacking it and saying..."how could they be so stupid". That kind of attitude suggests that you regard yourself as bullet proof and incapable of making mistakes.
The reason for posting this Thread as I said from the beginning was to question ATCs response to SWAs mode of operation.
Fact of the matter is I was there, I saw it and I stand by what the captain did. You were not there, you did not see it and are trying to piece it together from reading about it. Just like reading about a mishap and armchair quarterbacking it and saying..."how could they be so stupid". That kind of attitude suggests that you regard yourself as bullet proof and incapable of making mistakes.
The reason for posting this Thread as I said from the beginning was to question ATCs response to SWAs mode of operation.
Last edited by Pelican; 08-21-2008 at 09:50 AM.
08-21-2008, 04:00 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Gave up. Staying retired.
Posts: 111
Not the position I took at all. But if you feel better now.......
ATC misses plenty of them, especially since they are working short handed on positions with combined frequencies, answering their own landline calls during arrival rushes. If you want to compare that with two/three people listening for one call sign on one frequency,.....ahh....OK.
ATC misses plenty of them, especially since they are working short handed on positions with combined frequencies, answering their own landline calls during arrival rushes. If you want to compare that with two/three people listening for one call sign on one frequency,.....ahh....OK.
08-21-2008, 05:26 PM
#68
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 1,230
Yeah, cause we never have anything going on that would prevent us from hearing a call.
I would say the majority of the time ATC thinks I missed a call it's because they used the wrong call sign. Then they get huffy when you query them about the call sign.
Look, we are not perfect, but neither is ATC.
08-21-2008, 07:23 PM
#69
New boss = Old boss
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Not the position I took at all. But if you feel better now.......
ATC misses plenty of them, especially since they are working short handed on positions with combined frequencies, answering their own landline calls during arrival rushes. If you want to compare that with two/three people listening for one call sign on one frequency,.....ahh....OK.
ATC misses plenty of them, especially since they are working short handed on positions with combined frequencies, answering their own landline calls during arrival rushes. If you want to compare that with two/three people listening for one call sign on one frequency,.....ahh....OK.
Yeah, cause we never have anything going on that would prevent us from hearing a call.
I would say the majority of the time ATC thinks I missed a call it's because they used the wrong call sign. Then they get huffy when you query them about the call sign.
Look, we are not perfect, but neither is ATC.
I would say the majority of the time ATC thinks I missed a call it's because they used the wrong call sign. Then they get huffy when you query them about the call sign.
Look, we are not perfect, but neither is ATC.
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