Airlines Unite! Act now!
07-12-2008, 03:59 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Coach
Posts: 117
kick me off then - but i've got bonifides
. there are plenty of pilots right now who aren't presently airline pilots with the current condition of the industry!
07-12-2008, 05:07 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: A320 starboard... Arrrr
Posts: 520
Haha! Now thats funny...
Or put American Eagle on there and people will say "Liiikkeee, i dont get it.. why does a clothing company care about oil so mucccchh... i meaaan, pleease!"
07-12-2008, 05:36 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
I don't think you understand what it's like investing approximately $80,000 to $110,000 into a career only to see any hopes of a stable income being swallowed up by the market. I realize I am not a market analyst, and you may very well understand the stock market dynamics a hell of a lot better than me. That being said, somebody is making alot of money off of this and when most companies point that blame towards speculators, I tend to agree.
07-12-2008, 05:46 AM
#45
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
That's not by choice, but by necessity. Just because those "airline pilots" aren't airline pilots currently, that doesn't mean they don't still have financial responsibilities.
I don't think you understand what it's like investing approximately $80,000 to $110,000 into a career only to see any hopes of a stable income being swallowed up by the market. I realize I am not a market analyst, and you may very well understand the stock market dynamics a hell of a lot better than me. That being said, somebody is making alot of money off of this and when most companies point that blame towards speculators, I tend to agree.
I don't think you understand what it's like investing approximately $80,000 to $110,000 into a career only to see any hopes of a stable income being swallowed up by the market. I realize I am not a market analyst, and you may very well understand the stock market dynamics a hell of a lot better than me. That being said, somebody is making alot of money off of this and when most companies point that blame towards speculators, I tend to agree.
Last edited by Superpilot92; 07-12-2008 at 05:55 AM.
07-12-2008, 05:57 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Agreed, i find it pretty ironic that the only people that say it isnt speculation are the financial institutions and investors that are making lots of money off of the one thing in the market they THINK they can count on. The more the financial institutions tell everyone that oil will go up and hit 200 a barrel the more that gets investors to buy in, raising the price. If someone said they had the lotto numbers for tomorrow would you go buy a ticket?
Like I said, I'm not an expert, but if the majority of fuel is traded 10-15 times before any physical delivery is taken, do you really need to be an expert to see what's going on.
bbtp,
I'm not sure what you do for a living, but imagine one day your bottom line dips steeply in the red because all you finances are being swallowed up by your production/service costs. Right now, airline pilots are just a large slice of the American public who in a few months won't be able to afford to drive to work anymore.
07-12-2008, 06:26 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Coach
Posts: 117
That's not by choice, but by necessity. Just because those "airline pilots" aren't airline pilots currently, that doesn't mean they don't still have financial responsibilities.
I don't think you understand what it's like investing approximately $80,000 to $110,000 into a career only to see any hopes of a stable income being swallowed up by the market. I realize I am not a market analyst, and you may very well understand the stock market dynamics a hell of a lot better than me. That being said, somebody is making alot of money off of this and when most companies point that blame towards speculators, I tend to agree.
I don't think you understand what it's like investing approximately $80,000 to $110,000 into a career only to see any hopes of a stable income being swallowed up by the market. I realize I am not a market analyst, and you may very well understand the stock market dynamics a hell of a lot better than me. That being said, somebody is making alot of money off of this and when most companies point that blame towards speculators, I tend to agree.
you're right - pilots have "over-invested" in training for the "promise" of out-sized wages. union-driven wages do that by their very nature - when you demand (and get) a wage that is above the natural "market-driven" wage, you lower the rate of employment. this isn't the fault of "the market," it's a consquence of the laws of economics. there's nothing anyone can do about it, short of the government deciding it's going to subsidize pilot salaries (which would have its own negative consequences - and I think most would agree a pilot subsidy would be unfair to every other profession).
the "promise" of high wages was evaporating long before the price of oil boomed. the dramatic rise in the price of oil has only accelerated what was already happening. it's nice to be able to blame someone, but in this case, blaming the speculators is blaming ghosts.
07-12-2008, 06:41 AM
#48
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
07-12-2008, 06:45 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
i do understand - i invested a huge chunk of my life (as well as a smaller chunk of cash on the backside) in the whole pilot thing. that's all a sunk cost - there's nothing i can do about it now other than savor the good memories. now i'm doing something else, because is makes sense for me and my family (both financially and otherwise).
you're right - pilots have "over-invested" in training for the "promise" of out-sized wages. union-driven wages do that by their very nature - when you demand (and get) a wage that is above the natural "market-driven" wage, you lower the rate of employment. this isn't the fault of "the market," it's a consquence of the laws of economics. there's nothing anyone can do about it, short of the government deciding it's going to subsidize pilot salaries (which would have its own negative consequences - and I think most would agree a pilot subsidy would be unfair to every other profession).
the "promise" of high wages was evaporating long before the price of oil boomed. the dramatic rise in the price of oil has only accelerated what was already happening. it's nice to be able to blame someone, but in this case, blaming the speculators is blaming ghosts.
you're right - pilots have "over-invested" in training for the "promise" of out-sized wages. union-driven wages do that by their very nature - when you demand (and get) a wage that is above the natural "market-driven" wage, you lower the rate of employment. this isn't the fault of "the market," it's a consquence of the laws of economics. there's nothing anyone can do about it, short of the government deciding it's going to subsidize pilot salaries (which would have its own negative consequences - and I think most would agree a pilot subsidy would be unfair to every other profession).
the "promise" of high wages was evaporating long before the price of oil boomed. the dramatic rise in the price of oil has only accelerated what was already happening. it's nice to be able to blame someone, but in this case, blaming the speculators is blaming ghosts.
Government regulation, by association to deciding a pilot's salary, is a double edged sword in my opinion. The government can provide a stable industry, but the downside to that would be a lot less jobs.
I think their needs to be a delicate balance here, as well as a way of controlling operational costs. Airlines today are continuously gambling on the hopes that fuel costs will not surpass their profit viability.
Hedging is just buying airlines time and money in the grand scheme of things.
I think a big part of the problem was largely due to the fact that oil prices had been so cheap in this country for such a long time that everyone took it for granted. The Ultra-Low cost of fuel never gave people a reason to limit or control their consumption, until today that is.
The government has worked so hard to prevent any one company from monopolizing a industry, Sirius/XM, DAL/NWA, and Microsoft just to name a few. My question is how come oil companies don't seem to have as many legislators restricting their growth?
If I had to venture a guess, I'd say corruption, but again that's just a guess.
Money looks after money, always has always will. Problem today is that the hard work, dedication, and commitment of the many is used to fund the wealth and greed of the few anyway you look at it.
07-12-2008, 10:03 AM
#50
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
I wish just one of you had some clue as to how our markets work before you spew on here. Speculation is not the culprit in the rising cost of fuel. There are speculators on the futures market for just about every commodity that is sold in the U.S. If the price of oil was not going up, speculators would not buy futures at higher prices. When the price of oil dropped dramatically in the past, was that the speculators' fault too?
What you are asking here is for government to regulate the price of oil which is a global commodity. This is ignorant and just shows how little each of you know about how the market works. Democrats and media blaming speculators is just a way for them to seem like they are doing something without actually doing anything. Stopping the decline of the value of the dollar and putting more oil into production is the way to bring down the cost of oil. Futures markets just reflect the actual cost of the oil.
Maybe you can understand how many of you have no idea how free market economics works. Many of you guys were willing to speculate on your income by paying 70,000-100,000 for your ratings to fly airplanes. In the real market, all of you would be done trading on the futures markets because you can only make so many bad trades before you are out of money. In this case, you would find out that putting yourself that much in debt for the chance to be a regional pilot and make 20,000/year is a bad purchase on the market. Somebody sold you a really bad trade, and you lost. Now, if the oil speculators bought oil for as high as you paid for your ratings, they would all be in trouble because NOBODY would pay that much for a barrel of oil. So, they would be holding useless oil that cannot be sold for what they owe. They would have to sell for a loss, and most people cannot operate on a loss for long without going broke. SO, recognize that futures traders are only buying oil for what they believe will be paid on the open market. If the market does not bear the price, they will lose their shirt. THAT IS IT. They do not hold some secret power to raise the price.
The conspiracy theory is bunk. Quit making yourselves look dumb.
What you are asking here is for government to regulate the price of oil which is a global commodity. This is ignorant and just shows how little each of you know about how the market works. Democrats and media blaming speculators is just a way for them to seem like they are doing something without actually doing anything. Stopping the decline of the value of the dollar and putting more oil into production is the way to bring down the cost of oil. Futures markets just reflect the actual cost of the oil.
Maybe you can understand how many of you have no idea how free market economics works. Many of you guys were willing to speculate on your income by paying 70,000-100,000 for your ratings to fly airplanes. In the real market, all of you would be done trading on the futures markets because you can only make so many bad trades before you are out of money. In this case, you would find out that putting yourself that much in debt for the chance to be a regional pilot and make 20,000/year is a bad purchase on the market. Somebody sold you a really bad trade, and you lost. Now, if the oil speculators bought oil for as high as you paid for your ratings, they would all be in trouble because NOBODY would pay that much for a barrel of oil. So, they would be holding useless oil that cannot be sold for what they owe. They would have to sell for a loss, and most people cannot operate on a loss for long without going broke. SO, recognize that futures traders are only buying oil for what they believe will be paid on the open market. If the market does not bear the price, they will lose their shirt. THAT IS IT. They do not hold some secret power to raise the price.
The conspiracy theory is bunk. Quit making yourselves look dumb.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
