Airlines Unite! Act now!
07-10-2008, 06:48 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
We've hit peak oil, the changes we're seeing in the industry today are consistent w/ what would be expected w/ peak oil.
The CEOs could have done a better job of trying to mitigate the consequences of oil prices...what did they expect, for oil prices to stay flat? Now to try and soften the impact of their mismanagement, the CEOs have figured a form letter to Joe public will solicit change...fat chance.
This is probably the most pathetic thing I've seen from airline management so far. Probably concocted this plan while they were at the annual CEO get-together they have up in Wyoming each year.
The CEOs could have done a better job of trying to mitigate the consequences of oil prices...what did they expect, for oil prices to stay flat? Now to try and soften the impact of their mismanagement, the CEOs have figured a form letter to Joe public will solicit change...fat chance.
This is probably the most pathetic thing I've seen from airline management so far. Probably concocted this plan while they were at the annual CEO get-together they have up in Wyoming each year.
07-10-2008, 06:49 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 396
The U.S. government would not be pushing for the Saudis to pump more oil and for additional drilling of the OCS if speculation were the problem. In this debate, actions certainly speak more loudly than words, so far the central theme seems to be supply.
It's the Saudis who blame price on speculation...I don't trust the Saudis, I'm sorry. I feel that I have good reason not to trust their government and ther state oil company, ARAMCO.
I'd like to believe that speculation is the problem, but it clearly is not, at least based on the actions that we've seen so far.
The airlines have peaked in terms of size because of cheap oil...the pendulum is now swinging in the other direction, energy costs will stay expensive, it is now time for the airlines to downsize drastically by means of charging an equitable fare for their tickets. It's a tough pill to swallow, but this what we're going to see. Heck, we're seeing it already, why deny reality.
It's the Saudis who blame price on speculation...I don't trust the Saudis, I'm sorry. I feel that I have good reason not to trust their government and ther state oil company, ARAMCO.
I'd like to believe that speculation is the problem, but it clearly is not, at least based on the actions that we've seen so far.
The airlines have peaked in terms of size because of cheap oil...the pendulum is now swinging in the other direction, energy costs will stay expensive, it is now time for the airlines to downsize drastically by means of charging an equitable fare for their tickets. It's a tough pill to swallow, but this what we're going to see. Heck, we're seeing it already, why deny reality.
07-10-2008, 06:56 PM
#23
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
The U.S. government would not be pushing for the Saudis to pump more oil and for additional drilling of the OCS if speculation were the problem. In this debate, actions certainly speak more loudly than words, so far the central theme seems to be supply.
It's the Saudis who blame price on speculation...I don't trust the Saudis, I'm sorry. I feel that I have good reason not to trust their government and ther state oil company, ARAMCO.
I'd like to believe that speculation is the problem, but it clearly is not, at least based on the actions that we've seen so far.
The airlines have peaked in terms of size because of cheap oil...the pendulum is now swinging in the other direction, energy costs will stay expensive, it is now time for the airlines to downsize drastically by means of charging an equitable fare for their tickets. It's a tough pill to swallow, but this what we're going to see. Heck, we're seeing it already, why deny reality.
It's the Saudis who blame price on speculation...I don't trust the Saudis, I'm sorry. I feel that I have good reason not to trust their government and ther state oil company, ARAMCO.
I'd like to believe that speculation is the problem, but it clearly is not, at least based on the actions that we've seen so far.
The airlines have peaked in terms of size because of cheap oil...the pendulum is now swinging in the other direction, energy costs will stay expensive, it is now time for the airlines to downsize drastically by means of charging an equitable fare for their tickets. It's a tough pill to swallow, but this what we're going to see. Heck, we're seeing it already, why deny reality.
07-10-2008, 10:04 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Cessna 210 Turbo
Posts: 50
Speculation IS a big problem, and IS contributing to the high price of oil.
Oil should be around $60-70 a barrel right now and that includes supply & demand and the weak US dollar.
As to the CEOs of the airlines signing this, hey, they have a valid point, no matter how they may have "mismanaged" their respective company.
Oil should be around $60-70 a barrel right now and that includes supply & demand and the weak US dollar.
As to the CEOs of the airlines signing this, hey, they have a valid point, no matter how they may have "mismanaged" their respective company.
07-11-2008, 12:44 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: new guy
Posts: 382
I wish just one of you had some clue as to how our markets work before you spew on here. Speculation is not the culprit in the rising cost of fuel. There are speculators on the futures market for just about every commodity that is sold in the U.S. If the price of oil was not going up, speculators would not buy futures at higher prices. When the price of oil dropped dramatically in the past, was that the speculators' fault too?
What you are asking here is for government to regulate the price of oil which is a global commodity. This is ignorant and just shows how little each of you know about how the market works. Democrats and media blaming speculators is just a way for them to seem like they are doing something without actually doing anything. Stopping the decline of the value of the dollar and putting more oil into production is the way to bring down the cost of oil. Futures markets just reflect the actual cost of the oil.
Maybe you can understand how many of you have no idea how free market economics works. Many of you guys were willing to speculate on your income by paying 70,000-100,000 for your ratings to fly airplanes. In the real market, all of you would be done trading on the futures markets because you can only make so many bad trades before you are out of money. In this case, you would find out that putting yourself that much in debt for the chance to be a regional pilot and make 20,000/year is a bad purchase on the market. Somebody sold you a really bad trade, and you lost. Now, if the oil speculators bought oil for as high as you paid for your ratings, they would all be in trouble because NOBODY would pay that much for a barrel of oil. So, they would be holding useless oil that cannot be sold for what they owe. They would have to sell for a loss, and most people cannot operate on a loss for long without going broke. SO, recognize that futures traders are only buying oil for what they believe will be paid on the open market. If the market does not bear the price, they will lose their shirt. THAT IS IT. They do not hold some secret power to raise the price.
The conspiracy theory is bunk. Quit making yourselves look dumb.
What you are asking here is for government to regulate the price of oil which is a global commodity. This is ignorant and just shows how little each of you know about how the market works. Democrats and media blaming speculators is just a way for them to seem like they are doing something without actually doing anything. Stopping the decline of the value of the dollar and putting more oil into production is the way to bring down the cost of oil. Futures markets just reflect the actual cost of the oil.
Maybe you can understand how many of you have no idea how free market economics works. Many of you guys were willing to speculate on your income by paying 70,000-100,000 for your ratings to fly airplanes. In the real market, all of you would be done trading on the futures markets because you can only make so many bad trades before you are out of money. In this case, you would find out that putting yourself that much in debt for the chance to be a regional pilot and make 20,000/year is a bad purchase on the market. Somebody sold you a really bad trade, and you lost. Now, if the oil speculators bought oil for as high as you paid for your ratings, they would all be in trouble because NOBODY would pay that much for a barrel of oil. So, they would be holding useless oil that cannot be sold for what they owe. They would have to sell for a loss, and most people cannot operate on a loss for long without going broke. SO, recognize that futures traders are only buying oil for what they believe will be paid on the open market. If the market does not bear the price, they will lose their shirt. THAT IS IT. They do not hold some secret power to raise the price.
The conspiracy theory is bunk. Quit making yourselves look dumb.
07-11-2008, 12:47 AM
#27
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 461
I wish just one of you had some clue as to how our markets work before you spew on here. Speculation is not the culprit in the rising cost of fuel. There are speculators on the futures market for just about every commodity that is sold in the U.S. If the price of oil was not going up, speculators would not buy futures at higher prices. When the price of oil dropped dramatically in the past, was that the speculators' fault too?
What you are asking here is for government to regulate the price of oil which is a global commodity. This is ignorant and just shows how little each of you know about how the market works. Democrats and media blaming speculators is just a way for them to seem like they are doing something without actually doing anything. Stopping the decline of the value of the dollar and putting more oil into production is the way to bring down the cost of oil. Futures markets just reflect the actual cost of the oil.
Maybe you can understand how many of you have no idea how free market economics works. Many of you guys were willing to speculate on your income by paying 70,000-100,000 for your ratings to fly airplanes. In the real market, all of you would be done trading on the futures markets because you can only make so many bad trades before you are out of money. In this case, you would find out that putting yourself that much in debt for the chance to be a regional pilot and make 20,000/year is a bad purchase on the market. Somebody sold you a really bad trade, and you lost. Now, if the oil speculators bought oil for as high as you paid for your ratings, they would all be in trouble because NOBODY would pay that much for a barrel of oil. So, they would be holding useless oil that cannot be sold for what they owe. They would have to sell for a loss, and most people cannot operate on a loss for long without going broke. SO, recognize that futures traders are only buying oil for what they believe will be paid on the open market. If the market does not bear the price, they will lose their shirt. THAT IS IT. They do not hold some secret power to raise the price.
The conspiracy theory is bunk. Quit making yourselves look dumb.
What you are asking here is for government to regulate the price of oil which is a global commodity. This is ignorant and just shows how little each of you know about how the market works. Democrats and media blaming speculators is just a way for them to seem like they are doing something without actually doing anything. Stopping the decline of the value of the dollar and putting more oil into production is the way to bring down the cost of oil. Futures markets just reflect the actual cost of the oil.
Maybe you can understand how many of you have no idea how free market economics works. Many of you guys were willing to speculate on your income by paying 70,000-100,000 for your ratings to fly airplanes. In the real market, all of you would be done trading on the futures markets because you can only make so many bad trades before you are out of money. In this case, you would find out that putting yourself that much in debt for the chance to be a regional pilot and make 20,000/year is a bad purchase on the market. Somebody sold you a really bad trade, and you lost. Now, if the oil speculators bought oil for as high as you paid for your ratings, they would all be in trouble because NOBODY would pay that much for a barrel of oil. So, they would be holding useless oil that cannot be sold for what they owe. They would have to sell for a loss, and most people cannot operate on a loss for long without going broke. SO, recognize that futures traders are only buying oil for what they believe will be paid on the open market. If the market does not bear the price, they will lose their shirt. THAT IS IT. They do not hold some secret power to raise the price.
The conspiracy theory is bunk. Quit making yourselves look dumb.
Thank you, sir.
Good god people, remove head from anus.
CE
07-11-2008, 03:39 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Coach
Posts: 117
good analogy, milky!
i've said time and time again, i don't know if there's a "bubble" - my point is that it doesn't matter! just as pilots are free to speculate on future earnings when they leverage themselves heavily to get ratings, people ought to be free to leverage their funds in markets - be that housing, stocks, bonds or oil.
allowing increased foreign ownership of domestic carrier would allow an immediate capital infusion to many carriers to ride out tough times (and lean out for the good times). it would save a heck of a lot of jobs.
i've said time and time again, i don't know if there's a "bubble" - my point is that it doesn't matter! just as pilots are free to speculate on future earnings when they leverage themselves heavily to get ratings, people ought to be free to leverage their funds in markets - be that housing, stocks, bonds or oil.
allowing increased foreign ownership of domestic carrier would allow an immediate capital infusion to many carriers to ride out tough times (and lean out for the good times). it would save a heck of a lot of jobs.
07-11-2008, 04:57 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
bbtp, crimson, and milky thank you for injecting a dose of intelligence and knowledge in an otherwise completely irrational debate. The level of economic education in this country is just abysmal. The masses are so easily swayed by specious arguments it's a wonder that we have any freedoms left.
Before you flame me super, our ceo's are not being irrational. Very vew corporate heads are free market economists. They see a chance to get some favorable government regulation so they go for it. That's partly why there are so many well paid lobbyists, to skew the markets in favor of one company or sector.
DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW, PAY LESS!!!!!
Before you flame me super, our ceo's are not being irrational. Very vew corporate heads are free market economists. They see a chance to get some favorable government regulation so they go for it. That's partly why there are so many well paid lobbyists, to skew the markets in favor of one company or sector.
DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW, PAY LESS!!!!!
07-11-2008, 07:43 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Citation
Posts: 176
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
