CAL charged with manslaughter in French court

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07-07-2008, 06:24 AM

#31

XHooker

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Joined APC: Mar 2008

Posts: 1,083

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenix 23684

I spoke to a retired BA Concorde Capt as well while in college and BA put 26 crews through the same scenario and 26 brought the plane back to the airport. He had some great stories about his career and Concorde. Amazing aircraft despite some of its problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueridger

Right........ I'm sure many crews could successfully bring back a crippled airplane whose got one engine fire indication, one engine flamed out and whose wing and flight controls is actively being devoured by flames and will lose structural integrity in less than a minute!

I agree totally. The BA captain never should have been shooting off his mouth about a situation as dynamic as the one the AF crew faced. It's one thing to get a thorough briefing ahead of time and know it's coming, another to figure it all out real time. The AA Chicago DC-10 mishap is a great example.

Quote:

Fault for this accident lies with many culprits, including CAL, but don't involve the crew! They were faced with a catastrophic scenario that was unsurvivable....

At some point there has to be some sense of responsibility taken by the French. The manslaughter charges are ridiculous. My understanding of this incident is that Air France failed procedurally and also operated a plane out of its performance envelope. Additionally, any plane that is that prone to a catastrophic mishap from a blown tire shouldn't have been flying, much less carrying passengers. Does CAL bear some responsibility...probably, but most of the blame rests with AF, and they're pointing the finger everywhere but where it belongs.

07-07-2008, 06:32 AM

#32

XHooker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob

Yet, no crew in a sim has ever been able to sucessfully recreate what Capt Al Haynes and his crew were able to accomplish with UA232.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellerophon

I stand in awe at what Captain Al Haynes and his crew achieved on that day, and I say that as a one time DC10 Captain.

However, armed with knowledge acquired following a detailed technical briefing on the Sioux City incident, many DC10 crews have subsequently managed that situation to a successful outcome in the simulator.

How well any of those crews would have managed the real thing, in an aircraft, first time, with no prior briefing, is very much another matter. Personally, I'm very glad it was Al Haynes, and not me, that day.

I'm also grateful to have learnt as much as I did from his full and frank account of the incident, and the technical investigations that followed. What concerns me is that the current trend seems to be towards prosecution, not training, after any incident, and this must inevitably have a chilling effect on what should be an open and frank reporting culture.

I flew both types, and I was a better prepared, and dare I say it, safer, pilot because of the information that came out of the investigations into these two incidents.

Sadly I believe that such information will become much rarer in the future.

Bellerophon, I totally agree with your points, but maybe you had better sims and pilots than our DC-10 folks. I was an FE on the plane and my understanding is that even with a prior briefing, most of our crews couldn't bring the Sioux City scenario to a successful conclusion. What Captain Haynes and the UAL crew achieved that day was truly remarkable.

07-07-2008, 06:48 AM

#33

NE_Pilot

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob

Yet, no crew in a sim has ever been able to sucessfully recreate what Capt Al Haynes and his crew were able to accomplish with UA232.

The A300 out of Baghdad in 2003 had a similar situation to UA232 and that crew was also able to successfully land the aircraft.

07-08-2008, 06:20 AM

#34

Justdoinmyjob

Looking for a laugh

Joined APC: Feb 2008

Posts: 4,099

Quote:

Originally Posted by NE_Pilot

The A300 out of Baghdad in 2003 had a similar situation to UA232 and that crew was also able to successfully land the aircraft.

They lost ALL their hydraulics too? I find that difficult to believe, but have never read the full report so maybe it is true.

07-08-2008, 07:45 AM

#35

highflyer

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Position: MD11 Capt

Posts: 232

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob

They lost ALL their hydraulics too? I find that difficult to believe, but have never read the full report so maybe it is true.

Yes, they did. and limited braking as well. they were finally stopped by hitting the barbed wire fence of the end of the runway... Superior airmanship and well deserved kudos.