fdxbusdriver

Which was really only because they and the British didn't get along. France actually wanted to colonize the US in return for support in kicking the British out. But you are correct, we are allies.

eaglefly

The idiots of France who are twisting this around to blame others have done so before. One only needs to review the history of the ATR to see the incompetance, ineptitude, evasiness and disregard of facts that the French display when it comes to aviation.

The idiot test pilot who flew their airbus into the trees during an airshow demonstration should know as well.

The cryptic words of one character in the movie "The Da Vinci Code" got it right, "....................The French cannot be trusted".

Justdoinmyjob

"The enemy of my enemy, is my friend."

phoenix 23684

Something more to add:

I spoke to a retired BA Concorde Capt as well while in college and BA put 26 crews through the same scenario and 26 brought the plane back to the airport. He had some great stories about his career and Concorde. Amazing aircraft despite some of its problems.

Blueridger

Right........ I'm sure many crews could successfully bring back a crippled airplane whose got one engine fire indication, one engine flamed out and whose wing and flight controls is actively being devoured by flames and will lose structural integrity in less than a minute!
But hey, I guess you're the expert since you fly a cutting edge piece of aviation technology like the SF340!

Get a clue!

Fault for this accident lies with many culprits, including CAL, but don't involve the crew! They were faced with a catastrophic scenario that was unsurvivable.....

Blueridger

[quote=eaglefly;418805]The idiots of France who are twisting this around to blame others have done so before. One only needs to review the history of the ATR to see the incompetance, ineptitude, evasiness and disregard of facts that the French display when it comes to aviation.
quote]

You are certainly correct about the ATR story, but one needs to look no further than the DC-10 story to find a similar scenario. Instead of an AD on defective cargo door (that nearly took down an AA flight), a non-essential and non time-critical service bulletin was issued and cost the lives of over 300 people on a THY flight in 1974. So tell me, which was worse???

dojetdriver

I didn't read into it that he was "blaming the crew".

Besides, we all know sim world can be night and day compared to the real world. For one, the crews going through the sim new the problem was coming and were spring loaded with their reaction. You know, kinda like on a check ride/PC and you know a V1 cut is coming.

If you were to put crews into a DC10 sim and give them the EXACT same event that the AA one at ORD went through, they would probably be able to make it. ONLY because they were armed with the knowledge of the EXACT situation they were in.

I heard something about the Turkish DC10 that crashed in France. It was said that while they were heading into the ground, if they had pushed the power up on the wing mounted engines, it might have given enough of a pitch change to stop the descent. What they would have done after that, who knows. But who would think of that? If it was real time live and I was going into the ground at the speed that they were, I'm pretty sure that adding power would have been the last thing on my mind.

But if I was in the sim, and new that, I'd give it a shot.

Justdoinmyjob

Yet, no crew in a sim has ever been able to sucessfully recreate what Capt Al Haynes and his crew were able to accomplish with UA232.

Bellerophon

The only slight problem with that statement is that, at the time of the AF Concorde accident - or indeed at any time after it - BA did not have anything like 26 crews on Concorde. More like a dozen.


I stand in awe at what Captain Al Haynes and his crew achieved on that day, and I say that as a one time DC10 Captain.

However, armed with knowledge acquired following a detailed technical briefing on the Sioux City incident, many DC10 crews have subsequently managed that situation to a successful outcome in the simulator.

How well any of those crews would have managed the real thing, in an aircraft, first time, with no prior briefing, is very much another matter. Personally, I'm very glad it was Al Haynes, and not me, that day.

I'm also grateful to have learnt as much as I did from his full and frank account of the incident, and the technical investigations that followed. What concerns me is that the current trend seems to be towards prosecution, not training, after any incident, and this must inevitably have a chilling effect on what should be an open and frank reporting culture.

I flew both types, and I was a better prepared, and dare I say it, safer, pilot because of the information that came out of the investigations into these two incidents.

Sadly I believe that such information will become much rarer in the future.


Best regards

Bellerophon

Blkflyer

Capt Haynes and Crew had the hand of Providence on their hand that day, IMHO