Virgin America hits new LOW in pay!
09-11-2006, 05:39 PM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Point 1:
I didn't discourage anyone form working anywhere.
Point 2:
If it wasn't for ALPA, life as a profesionnal pilot would probably not be worth pursueing .............even with all the recent concessions. Case and point, just look at Virgin America's proposed pay.
BTW the "Real intellingent comment" wasn't a compliment.
I didn't discourage anyone form working anywhere.
Point 2:
If it wasn't for ALPA, life as a profesionnal pilot would probably not be worth pursueing .............even with all the recent concessions. Case and point, just look at Virgin America's proposed pay.
BTW the "Real intellingent comment" wasn't a compliment.
would any other unions help out non union employees who are undercutting them by giving them rides to work.
when gojets first started alpa originally said don't offer these guys rides but I have now been told that they aren't doing that anymore.
alpa protects us from ourselves more so than management because there are people out there that will do this for little or nothing because it is cool to fly.
09-11-2006, 05:51 PM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement, and this has been my view for awhile, which is why I cannot stand seeing threads with pilots arguing over pay. $90,000 per year is a lot more than what a majority of Americans earn. The average family income in this country is ~$45,000. The average salary for men in this country is ~$40,000, and the average salary for women in this country is ~$30,000.
There is no doubt that going from making $200,000 to $150,000 is a big pay cut, that many at the majors have seen. Regardless of how much money you are making, if you receive a pay cut, and aren't used to the 'lower' pay, it can be aggrevating. I know a lot of major guys don't understand the view point of regional pilots, etc., who ask why they can complain over $90,000 or $150,000. The fact is, a regional guy isn't going from making $200,000 to $150,000. They may be going from $70,000 to $90,000 to $150,000. To them, it is a big pay raise, and more money than most make in this country.
I know personally, regardless of what job I am in, I would love to make $90,000 or $150,000. And, I think if you surveyed everybody in this country, 95% or more would agree. However, as soon as a pilot makes a statement like that, he is then the reason for the reductions in pay, and the reason for the state of the industry. How many other people argue with one another on a daily basis, and blame each other for lowering pay in their industry, because they make $90,000 per year. It really looks ridiculous from the outside, which is why much of the public has no sympathy at all. I know a lot of people who think that even with the pay cuts, pilots are over paid. Not saying I agree, but many do believe that.
When you really look at it, pilots like to bring up the skill it takes to be a pilot, and the lives one has in their hands. We all know when something goes wrong, a pilot's skills are what can save many lives. But, driving down the interstate in a bus is statistically more dangerous than flying an airplane. And, many of these charter buses carry as many people as a regional jet, yet people complain when the find out a New York City bus driver makes as much or more than a regional FO. I think one attitude pilots need to drop, is that attitude that they deserve more pay than everybody else. Some people literally come across as, "How dare they make more than me! I am a pilot!". How many soldiers serving in Iraq, or police men putting their lives on the line on a daily basis, earning $30K, would love to make that $90K salary that a pilot complains about.
Put things in perspective. Be thankfull for what you truly have, and enjoy flying. Life is too short to stress and argue over things like this. Life isn't all about money.
There is no doubt that going from making $200,000 to $150,000 is a big pay cut, that many at the majors have seen. Regardless of how much money you are making, if you receive a pay cut, and aren't used to the 'lower' pay, it can be aggrevating. I know a lot of major guys don't understand the view point of regional pilots, etc., who ask why they can complain over $90,000 or $150,000. The fact is, a regional guy isn't going from making $200,000 to $150,000. They may be going from $70,000 to $90,000 to $150,000. To them, it is a big pay raise, and more money than most make in this country.
I know personally, regardless of what job I am in, I would love to make $90,000 or $150,000. And, I think if you surveyed everybody in this country, 95% or more would agree. However, as soon as a pilot makes a statement like that, he is then the reason for the reductions in pay, and the reason for the state of the industry. How many other people argue with one another on a daily basis, and blame each other for lowering pay in their industry, because they make $90,000 per year. It really looks ridiculous from the outside, which is why much of the public has no sympathy at all. I know a lot of people who think that even with the pay cuts, pilots are over paid. Not saying I agree, but many do believe that.
When you really look at it, pilots like to bring up the skill it takes to be a pilot, and the lives one has in their hands. We all know when something goes wrong, a pilot's skills are what can save many lives. But, driving down the interstate in a bus is statistically more dangerous than flying an airplane. And, many of these charter buses carry as many people as a regional jet, yet people complain when the find out a New York City bus driver makes as much or more than a regional FO. I think one attitude pilots need to drop, is that attitude that they deserve more pay than everybody else. Some people literally come across as, "How dare they make more than me! I am a pilot!". How many soldiers serving in Iraq, or police men putting their lives on the line on a daily basis, earning $30K, would love to make that $90K salary that a pilot complains about.
Put things in perspective. Be thankfull for what you truly have, and enjoy flying. Life is too short to stress and argue over things like this. Life isn't all about money.
so can I have 50 bucks then...
09-11-2006, 06:27 PM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 584
Unfortunately, when it comes to the public perception part, there is truth in Chris's words. The most common response from the general public might be: "Really? I thought pilots made more than that, but it's still alot more than I make."
It's just one more thing the profession has to overcome.
Also, could anyone answer my Midwest question?
It's just one more thing the profession has to overcome.
Also, could anyone answer my Midwest question?
09-11-2006, 10:52 PM
#125
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 1,105
If this is what it is coming too I might as well stay at Mesa? I can be senior flying RJ's for $90,000 a year.
Yeah its more than some people make, and a hell of a lot less than others with less stressfull, less technical and certainly less life or death jobs too.
Stand up for yourselves for cryin out loud, if you want to make 90 stay at the damn regional don't polute the industry by flying new jets or space ships for pennies of what you are worth.
Yeah its more than some people make, and a hell of a lot less than others with less stressfull, less technical and certainly less life or death jobs too.
Stand up for yourselves for cryin out loud, if you want to make 90 stay at the damn regional don't polute the industry by flying new jets or space ships for pennies of what you are worth.
09-12-2006, 03:22 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 777
Some think like that until the day that they strap themselves or their family members into an airplane going to a destination with 30 knot crosswinds in blowing snow with slick runways. Or, being on an airplane with a catastrophic emergency of some kind. After safely leaving the aircraft on the other end, my guess is that most would say he or she deserves every penny. I think lawyers are over paid and will likely continue to think so until the day one saves my ass. It's all relative. As far as the money, it ultimately comes down to a supply and demand issue. As long as folks are willing to captain a commercial airliner for 90k, 70k, 50k, 12k ot ???, salaries will likely continue to decline in the industry. Ultimately, people will wake up and see that the enormous costs of getting there doesn't justify the pittance in pay and choose other careers. If nobody takes Sir Branson up on his offer to fly his airplanes for substandard wages he will be forced to pay competitively which will help preserve a standard in pay that in my humble opinion is still substandard. I know it is difficult for a new guy in the industry to not see where 90k to captain an airliner is a good deal. One needs to look at the big picture to see how those attitudes are hurting their future, not helping it. Fly safe!
09-12-2006, 07:36 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: JetRight, JetLeft
Posts: 760
Today we see that in a free market economy, airlines will have a limited life cycle. They start out with low costs and good service. Years later the service is diminished and labor costs go up as the group gets more senior. At some point labor will be dissatisfied enough to vote in a labor union which will once again increase costs. Employees are then told that in order to compete with the new JB, or the new VA, they'll have to take paycuts. Employees will only be willing to take so much cr@p that the company will have no choice but to merge, be bought out, or shutdown altogether.
So, Valuejet/Airtran yesterday, JetBlue today, Virgin America tomorrow. Who will be next?
GP
09-13-2006, 02:04 PM
#129
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1
It is complete nonsense to compare pilot pay to 'average' US pay. Pilots take years of $s out of pocket, low pay and hard work building hrs to get to the top of the scale. And once at the top, they are subject to furloughs and airlines going under which puts them back at the bottom rung (if there is a job to be had). A mistake at work can cost them their career altogether.
How many 'average' US jobs take such an investment and can become worthless due to so many risk factors?
Being an airline pilot is a profession and a pilot deserves compensation proportionate to their skill level and commitment.
How many 'average' US jobs take such an investment and can become worthless due to so many risk factors?
Being an airline pilot is a profession and a pilot deserves compensation proportionate to their skill level and commitment.
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