Virgin America hits new LOW in pay!
03-02-2006, 01:08 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,033
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
Always wanted to go Ducksford.........................
Great Museum. Best part was the wait in the pub at the bus stop we were forced to endure.
http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/
Thanks
03-02-2006, 01:17 PM
#103
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 320, L
Posts: 38
Hey FBW,
I forgot to add a question mark to my, er, question. If we were in-house (JBPA or similar) would you still deny the JS? Oh wait, I mean would you try to convince the CA to deny the JS? If so, I guess you won't be taking SWA or AirTran?
I doubt our pilot group/company would stoop down your level but you have a lot of folks that rely on us to get to/from work. If we did reciprocate in kind I guess that's one way you could indirectly 'get back' at management since your leverage is unfortunately sliding the other way.
Enjoy!
I forgot to add a question mark to my, er, question. If we were in-house (JBPA or similar) would you still deny the JS? Oh wait, I mean would you try to convince the CA to deny the JS? If so, I guess you won't be taking SWA or AirTran?
I doubt our pilot group/company would stoop down your level but you have a lot of folks that rely on us to get to/from work. If we did reciprocate in kind I guess that's one way you could indirectly 'get back' at management since your leverage is unfortunately sliding the other way.
Enjoy!
03-02-2006, 03:24 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 6,009
Ya gotta love these prepubescent numb nuts 30 year veteran F/Os who are beating their chests "I ain't going to let no JB pilot on my jump seat". Hell these guys would'nt have the balls to tell their captain that or argue the point with him or her.
Guys give it a rest already!
JB pilots are always welcome on my Jump Seat any time you guys come to Europe. We fly all over the place here. All you have to bring is a smile and the love to fly attitude and thats it. In fact they would probably have a better time with our F/A's than sitting in our jump seat
Guys give it a rest already!
JB pilots are always welcome on my Jump Seat any time you guys come to Europe. We fly all over the place here. All you have to bring is a smile and the love to fly attitude and thats it. In fact they would probably have a better time with our F/A's than sitting in our jump seat
Last edited by captjns; 03-02-2006 at 03:26 PM.
03-02-2006, 04:48 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Originally Posted by JBPA
Hey FBW,
I forgot to add a question mark to my, er, question. If we were in-house (JBPA or similar) would you still deny the JS? Oh wait, I mean would you try to convince the CA to deny the JS? If so, I guess you won't be taking SWA or AirTran?
I doubt our pilot group/company would stoop down your level but you have a lot of folks that rely on us to get to/from work. If we did reciprocate in kind I guess that's one way you could indirectly 'get back' at management since your leverage is unfortunately sliding the other way.
Enjoy!
I forgot to add a question mark to my, er, question. If we were in-house (JBPA or similar) would you still deny the JS? Oh wait, I mean would you try to convince the CA to deny the JS? If so, I guess you won't be taking SWA or AirTran?
I doubt our pilot group/company would stoop down your level but you have a lot of folks that rely on us to get to/from work. If we did reciprocate in kind I guess that's one way you could indirectly 'get back' at management since your leverage is unfortunately sliding the other way.
Enjoy!
Someone at a new start up is in your jumpseat who works for 1/2 to 2/3 of what you make and directly competes against your airline. To stay competitive your airline lowers fares, loses money, and says you need to take a pay cut to match this new start ups pay. The jumpseater tells you that you are going to have to get used to making less money, that's just the way it is. Would you really what to take these people to work so that they can help undercut your pay?
Is it really managements fault (payscales) when this pilot group is happy to work at that level?
03-02-2006, 05:10 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by Eric Stratton
How would you feel about this and answer honestly?
Someone at a new start up is in your jumpseat who works for 1/2 to 2/3 of what you make and directly competes against your airline. To stay competitive your airline lowers fares, loses money, and says you need to take a pay cut to match this new start ups pay. The jumpseater tells you that you are going to have to get used to making less money, that's just the way it is. Would you really what to take these people to work so that they can help undercut your pay?
Is it really managements fault (payscales) when this pilot group is happy to work at that level?
Someone at a new start up is in your jumpseat who works for 1/2 to 2/3 of what you make and directly competes against your airline. To stay competitive your airline lowers fares, loses money, and says you need to take a pay cut to match this new start ups pay. The jumpseater tells you that you are going to have to get used to making less money, that's just the way it is. Would you really what to take these people to work so that they can help undercut your pay?
Is it really managements fault (payscales) when this pilot group is happy to work at that level?
Yes it is.........these guys aren't union. A union doesn't start up from day 1.
Give them time.
How would you like to be the CAPT and FO working for a lower Tier carrier...................and a CAPT is in the Jumpseat bragging about how much he makes (which is more than the CAPT and FO combined) and shows you pictures of his 50 Seat Ray with Twin Diesels and his T-6 texan............
The point is........every Airline has its inconsiderate A$$ s.......................If it is an individual who is a jerk........make your denial based on that.........not what he makes.
Yes JB could Unionize (and will eventually and negotiate better pay/benfits)........
I remember when a Time when American and Delta did not have interline Jumpseats. Many Capts refused these pilots. I always let them ride..........if we had room (pilots from reciprocal airlines had priority). I always said theat when these pilots saw what they were missing, they would negotiate it in their next contracts...................
American and Delta now have interline Jumpseats.
Don't take your frustrations out on Pilots......................It'
s MGT that makes the decisions..........not pilots.
Please stop the infighting..................................
03-02-2006, 05:48 PM
#107
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 320, L
Posts: 38
Eric,
Go back and reread my previous posts. I think the dumba$$(es) who were in the JS arguing about the new sad state of affairs were the exception and not the rule. If not, FBW must've had all of our 10%ers in a row.
Another sad fact is that I doubt I make 1/2 or 2/3 of their pay. Maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of what the CA used to (260-300K) make and all or more of what the FO used to make. Again, would I like to make more? You bet. Someday hopefully. And no, I don't subscribe to the mentality of "I'm in the top 8% of gross income earners in this country and have 17 days off/month so all is peachy".
If we're being technical I don't see how JB competes DIRECTLY with NWA. At least not yet.
Redeye,
Thanks for being the voice of reason. Unfortunately it falls on deaf ears with many 'old schoolers' on here.
Captnjs,
I'd love to fly all over Europe. Who do you work for?
Go back and reread my previous posts. I think the dumba$$(es) who were in the JS arguing about the new sad state of affairs were the exception and not the rule. If not, FBW must've had all of our 10%ers in a row.
Another sad fact is that I doubt I make 1/2 or 2/3 of their pay. Maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of what the CA used to (260-300K) make and all or more of what the FO used to make. Again, would I like to make more? You bet. Someday hopefully. And no, I don't subscribe to the mentality of "I'm in the top 8% of gross income earners in this country and have 17 days off/month so all is peachy".
If we're being technical I don't see how JB competes DIRECTLY with NWA. At least not yet.
Redeye,
Thanks for being the voice of reason. Unfortunately it falls on deaf ears with many 'old schoolers' on here.
Captnjs,
I'd love to fly all over Europe. Who do you work for?
Last edited by JBPA; 03-02-2006 at 05:51 PM.
03-02-2006, 11:08 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Originally Posted by JBPA
Eric,
Go back and reread my previous posts. I think the dumba$$(es) who were in the JS arguing about the new sad state of affairs were the exception and not the rule. If not, FBW must've had all of our 10%ers in a row.
Another sad fact is that I doubt I make 1/2 or 2/3 of their pay. Maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of what the CA used to (260-300K) make and all or more of what the FO used to make. Again, would I like to make more? You bet. Someday hopefully. And no, I don't subscribe to the mentality of "I'm in the top 8% of gross income earners in this country and have 17 days off/month so all is peachy".
If we're being technical I don't see how JB competes DIRECTLY with NWA. At least not yet.
Redeye,
Thanks for being the voice of reason. Unfortunately it falls on deaf ears with many 'old schoolers' on here.
Captnjs,
I'd love to fly all over Europe. Who do you work for?
Go back and reread my previous posts. I think the dumba$$(es) who were in the JS arguing about the new sad state of affairs were the exception and not the rule. If not, FBW must've had all of our 10%ers in a row.
Another sad fact is that I doubt I make 1/2 or 2/3 of their pay. Maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of what the CA used to (260-300K) make and all or more of what the FO used to make. Again, would I like to make more? You bet. Someday hopefully. And no, I don't subscribe to the mentality of "I'm in the top 8% of gross income earners in this country and have 17 days off/month so all is peachy".
If we're being technical I don't see how JB competes DIRECTLY with NWA. At least not yet.
Redeye,
Thanks for being the voice of reason. Unfortunately it falls on deaf ears with many 'old schoolers' on here.
Captnjs,
I'd love to fly all over Europe. Who do you work for?
I know about the 10%er's but I'm guessing that the % is much higher for the people who are content making what they make at the lower payscales
It was 1/2 to 2/3 pre first round of pay cuts.
where does the race to the bottom end? virgin america
if LCC run an airline some much better then the rest why can't they pay there employes the same. they should still have an advantage over the others if it's run better. right? so couldn't they pay their employees more.
I'd have a tough time giving someone a ride who make's $40 hr in the left seat of a canadair or embraer because I have a mortgage and family to fee too.
I'm all for one real union where everyone has the same contract and not one that is all over the map in regards to pay and work rules. one that doesn't come back from a national meeting and the only thing that they tell us is that books are in order and they are making money.
03-03-2006, 05:14 AM
#109
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 320, L
Posts: 38
I know about the 10%er's but I'm guessing that the % is much higher for the people who are content making what they make at the lower payscales
if LCC run an airline some much better then the rest why can't they pay there employes the same. they should still have an advantage over the others if it's run better. right? so couldn't they pay their employees more.
I'd have a tough time giving someone a ride who make's $40 hr in the left seat of a canadair or embraer because I have a mortgage and family to fee too.
I'm all for one real union where everyone has the same contract and not one that is all over the map in regards to pay and work rules. one that doesn't come back from a national meeting and the only thing that they tell us is that books are in order and they are making money.
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