Kill Bill

oh-my-god. it DOES sound like him, doesn't it???

calcapt

Thanks SWAcapt. That was very gracious!

Joel Payne

Just keep your fingers crossed that Frank Lorenzo doesn't come out of retirement.

captjns

Its easy to understand why UAL, Delta, and NW are at the bottom of the list. The legacy airlines... the top of the world... who would have thought these airlines are hanging by a thread? Their employees who have taken massive pay cuts are obviously less enthused. This is passed along to their passengers whether conciously or not. I Gotta to say, can't blame them for being ****ed off after working for a company for 30 years and what do you have to show for it? Possbile merger, if lucky, or chains on the doors of their offices. Poor Delta employees who had the opportunity to take early retirement last summer with minimal loss to their retirement plans. Poor United employees... ESOP down the sh***er. I flew United a couple of months ago. I have to say it was reminiscent flying Mohawk or Alleghany airlines... depressing airplanes and crews.

tomgoodman

Retiring last Sept 1 or earlier, thus collecting the 50% lump sum, did indeed "minimize" (make as small as possible), one's loss. The AMOUNT lost, however, is already large and will greatly increase when the PBGC takes over the fund (a virtual certainty). If the lump sum is counted against the PBGC "minimum guarantee", some retired pilots may get no further payments at all. The Retirement Plan is badly underfunded, but by how much is unclear. Estimates vary, to as low as 43% funding. USAir pilots' experience with the PBGC has been horrible. http://www.dp3.org/data/US%20Airways%20PBGC.pdf

captjns

the PBGC is also in financial straights as well with the termination of Defined Benefit Pension Plans by other companys well before the airlines started going down the toilet. As you mentioned the PBGC will offset their benefits by benefits received by any recipients of this type of plan... thus you may not receive any additional benefits from PBGC if the payouts from the company Defined Benefit Pension Plan is at least equal to the covered benefit provided by the PBGC.

buddhapilot

What are the REAL mins to get an interview? Do you have to know somebody?

fireman0174

From personal experience, I can tell you that it will. Sadly, I think quite a few DAL pilots who took this option will get greatly reduced "benefits" from the PBGC. It's a pure actuarial offset computation.

I suppose it's theoretically possibly for someone in DAL's shoes to get $0.00, but I don't know this for a fact.

captjns

An employee will recieve his/her be it from the company or the PBGC. An accured benefit is usually defined as the normal retirement benefit which commences at age 60 (for airline pilots) multiplied by a fraction whereby the numerator is years of service from date of hire to termination and the denominator is the total years of service from date of hire to the individual's normal retirement age, again age 60 for pilots.

Thus all employees eligible for the defined benefit paln accrue a benefit. However this accrued benefit when expressed in a lump sum equivalent at normal retirement age is then discounted by the plans assumed rate of interest.

Below is a notice from the PBGC regarding insured benefit amounts. Of course this is for plan years beginning after 2005. But you'll get the main idea.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

December 12, 2005


PBGC Public Affairs, 202-326-4343

PBGC Announces Maximum Insurance Benefit for 2006

WASHINGTON — The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) today announced that the maximum insurance benefit for participants in underfunded pension plans terminating in 2006 is $47,659 per year for those who retire at age 65. The amount is higher for those who retire later and lower for those who retire earlier or elect survivor benefits (see table below). If a pension plan terminates in 2006 but a participant does not begin collecting benefits until a future year, the 2006 maximum insurance limits still apply.

The maximum insurance benefit is set by law. Two additional legal limits on PBGC’s insurance coverage can also affect participants’ benefits. The first prohibits the PBGC from guaranteeing benefits that exceed the amount payable at the plan’s normal retirement age. The second limits PBGC’s guarantee of benefit increases made within the five years prior to plan termination. For more information, see PBGC’s fact sheet “Pension Guarantees” (http://www.pbgc.gov/media/key-resour...page13542.html ).

RedeyeAV8r

[QUOTE=captjns]An employee will recieve his/her be it from the company or the PBGC. An accured benefit is usually defined as the normal retirement benefit which commences at age 60 (for airline pilots) multiplied by a fraction whereby the numerator is years of service from date of hire to termination and the denominator is the total years of service from date of hire to the individual's normal retirement age, again age 60 for pilots.
Thus all employees eligible for the defined benefit paln accrue a benefit. However this accrued benefit when expressed in a lump sum equivalent at normal retirement age is then discounted by the plans assumed rate of interest. [QOUTE]

I am not sure what your point is.

Simply put the MAX a pilot can get from the PBGC is $48K/year if he/she defers receiving benefits until 65( What pilot can afford to do this??.
What do they do between 60 and 65??

If they elect to receive benefits at 60 (currently mandatory retirement age)
the max the can receive is 27K/year

When you consider that most of these folks were Contractually promised in the area of 75k to 120k year (and thought they were ERISA protected).

There is a big difference between a Plan Termination and a Distress Plan Termination. A normal termination........the person gets the benefit up to what he she has earned at the time of said termination.................................

A distress termination (Like USAIr's) is where the PBGC takes over...........it is a big difference and one you don't want because of the above stated problem.


Even a bigger worry is that the PBGC is Broke. It like our Social Security system will not be able to pay out "Promised" future benefits to all to have it coming. Just wait until It takes over the UAL, Delta and GM's pensions......................there won't be anything left.