UAL going out of business?
05-23-2008, 06:04 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
The pin head in DC did not help matters by going into Iraq. Not that you can put a price on human life, but how much money has been spent with no end or return on cost in sight? We got bigger problems than airlines tanking, and it ain't gonna get any better any time soon. Since the Carter administration, never has any group of worthless politicians been so disconnected from reality. Well at least Dick "Gunner" Chaney and is friends, George and who? are making a bundle from the oil situation ala Haliburton. Lets all learn to tap dance.
Give it a rest. Vote for your candidate and shut up. You think oil prices are high now? Wait until the next 9/11 and there won't be an airline industry.
05-23-2008, 07:41 PM
#53
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,995
With the current state of the economy, rising unemployment, trade deficit, I think the airline industry, along with all forms of industry will be a major problem, which is not going to be fixed with a new administration for many years to come. The damage has been done with the erosion of our economy and infrastructure.
By the way.... where do you get inside job thing from? Lay off the Koolaide dude.
By the way.... where do you get inside job thing from? Lay off the Koolaide dude.
05-23-2008, 08:15 PM
#54
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,701
just like there is no way braniff, eastern, western, pan am, twa, etc etc would have ever gone out of business.
anyone who thinks that just because ual has good bases and good routes will not go away have forgotten how big these other airlines where in their hay day.
like the guy above me said people would have left fedex or even delta to get on with eastern or pan am. look at the st louis airport. things were booming so much there that they knocked down a bunch of houses to put in a runway that doesn't even get used now. look at kansas city and pit.
no one knows who will be around for the long haul, but i can tell you that NO ONE is good to go for sure.
anyone who thinks that just because ual has good bases and good routes will not go away have forgotten how big these other airlines where in their hay day.
like the guy above me said people would have left fedex or even delta to get on with eastern or pan am. look at the st louis airport. things were booming so much there that they knocked down a bunch of houses to put in a runway that doesn't even get used now. look at kansas city and pit.
no one knows who will be around for the long haul, but i can tell you that NO ONE is good to go for sure.
05-23-2008, 08:50 PM
#55
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Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
It would be politically difficult for the government (any administration) to let a top-three legacy tank abruptly...too much economic impact and disruption nationwide and at hub cities.
Never say never, but I think the fed would attempt to intervene in the case of UAL. Frontier? Not so much.
Both Eastern and PanAm were shells of their former selves when the end came. Today's UAL is a much larger company.
Never say never, but I think the fed would attempt to intervene in the case of UAL. Frontier? Not so much.
Both Eastern and PanAm were shells of their former selves when the end came. Today's UAL is a much larger company.
Granted, the BK laws are different now. But if you were following UAL's BK, you could EASILY make the case that UAL was government subsidized the way Wedhoff ran it.
05-23-2008, 09:22 PM
#56
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
The US government will not stop an airline from going out of business ... and even in Europe where the government actually subsidizes their airlines and the economies are more socialized/nationalized, airlines have tanked or are on the verge of tanking. Airlines like Sabena, Swissair are gone and Alitalia is hanging on by a thread.
(I hope I’m not offending any USAir folks here). Yeah, that's right; the government won't stop an airline from going out of business...
Also, your view on European airlines is slightly out of date. The European airlines are not allowed to receive any government subsidies (due to EU regulations). If they are found in the violation of those rules they can be sued and then the government which subsidized them might be forced to pay steep fines AND to reimburse all other airlines within the European market.
That's exactly why Sabena and several other smaller airlines are gone. Swissair is not really gone but rather it went bankrupt, merged with Crossair and after bankruptcy reorganization it became Swiss Airlines.
Note, I'm not defending the past European practices of subsidizing their national airlines but frankly we did the very same thing until deregulation here in the US.
My point is that our lenient bankruptcy laws create a de facto airline subsidy industry.
Last edited by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE; 05-23-2008 at 09:31 PM.
05-24-2008, 04:14 AM
#58
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
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05-24-2008, 05:31 AM
#59
I have shiny jet syndrome
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: ELACS, FACs and SECs. Who doesn't love 'em?
Posts: 984
Ok, so refresh my memory, how many years did USAirways spend in chapter 11 protection? Did you say 3?
(I hope I’m not offending any USAir folks here). Yeah, that's right; the government won't stop an airline from going out of business...
Also, your view on European airlines is slightly out of date. The European airlines are not allowed to receive any government subsidies (due to EU regulations). If they are found in the violation of those rules they can be sued and then the government which subsidized them might be forced to pay steep fines AND to reimburse all other airlines within the European market.
That's exactly why Sabena and several other smaller airlines are gone. Swissair is not really gone but rather it went bankrupt, merged with Crossair and after bankruptcy reorganization it became Swiss Airlines.
Note, I'm not defending the past European practices of subsidizing their national airlines but frankly we did the very same thing until deregulation here in the US.
My point is that our lenient bankruptcy laws create a de facto airline subsidy industry.
(I hope I’m not offending any USAir folks here). Yeah, that's right; the government won't stop an airline from going out of business...
Also, your view on European airlines is slightly out of date. The European airlines are not allowed to receive any government subsidies (due to EU regulations). If they are found in the violation of those rules they can be sued and then the government which subsidized them might be forced to pay steep fines AND to reimburse all other airlines within the European market.
That's exactly why Sabena and several other smaller airlines are gone. Swissair is not really gone but rather it went bankrupt, merged with Crossair and after bankruptcy reorganization it became Swiss Airlines.
Note, I'm not defending the past European practices of subsidizing their national airlines but frankly we did the very same thing until deregulation here in the US.
My point is that our lenient bankruptcy laws create a de facto airline subsidy industry.
05-24-2008, 06:53 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: I was acquired, Not Hired
Posts: 1,784
Just a few comments off the top of my head, since complete sentences aren't possible after the margarita cruise last night.
United has a lot of critical mass and crown jewels to offer a possible suitor, imho latching onto another airline like AMR & TWA is a more likely scenario than a flat-out liquidation.
I would think it would be better for Tilton and crew to sell out to someone (golden silk) then to take their chances presiding over an estate sale.
Just my "morning-after" thoughts, I hope neither of these scenarios come to reality.
FF
United has a lot of critical mass and crown jewels to offer a possible suitor, imho latching onto another airline like AMR & TWA is a more likely scenario than a flat-out liquidation.
I would think it would be better for Tilton and crew to sell out to someone (golden silk) then to take their chances presiding over an estate sale.
Just my "morning-after" thoughts, I hope neither of these scenarios come to reality.
FF
Last edited by FliFast; 05-24-2008 at 07:30 AM.
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