stinsonjr

Refresh my memory as to what ALPA did to TWA pilots.

dojetdriver

I'd like that too. It never ceases to amaze me whenever people throw that out there as an example of how ALPA failed them. Given TWA's position, as well as it being a buyout by a non ALPA carrier and not a merger, I'd like to know what ALPA could have done. Besides, an arbitrator more than likely would have thrown anything out the window.

Was there something in the TWA pilots contract (what was left of it) that stipulated an SLI even if they were bought out?

rickair7777

I'm not much of an ALPA fan, but that one was out of their hands.

Congress recently shut the barn door on that, so it should not happen again.

dojetdriver

I could be wrong, but didn't you say you were a "yes" voter not too long ago?

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Well, someone here thought ALPA could represent all the pilots n the US. My point was – exactly what did ALPA do for their TWA ALPA members when AA took over?

dojetdriver

Yeah, and I'll ask you again. What would ALPA have been able to due for them given the circumstances? They could have had the old school Jimmy Hoffa style tactics of breaking legs and setting cars on fire. ALPA was powerless to do ANYTHING for them.

Like I said, it's always funny when people use the TWA/AA thing to slam ALPA. It's usually done out of ignorance. Did the TWA guys the shaft in that whole deal? ABSOLUTELY! Don't get me wrong, there ARE things that ALPA has done that deserve criticism. But TWA is simply not one of them. Too many outside factors to use it to back up your argument.

Jay5150

OK, you say that the above was your point, but what you said was this:

I'd suggest having a better idea of what you're talking about before you make a "selling out" accusation. And I agree with the other poster, TWA guys may have gotten screwed, but I don't see what ALPA could have done about it in this situation.

RedeyeAV8r

And you really think TWA Pilots would have been treated better or had a more positive outcome with APA and AMR with regards to the merger if they had had their own in house Union?

Remember TWA was in Bankruptcy at the time and it was the TWA MEC (not ALPA National) who decided to void their Scope/successorship clause in their Contract, no doubt a requirement from APA to AMR MGT as a term for the merger to go through. The TWA MEC Chairman was on the TWA Corporate Board of Directors. The TWA Pilot's could had said NO to voiding the Contract and rolled the dice. We will never know if they made the right decision. BTW I too think the TWA guys got the short end of the stick in the merger but that is just my opinion.

Many here make the mistake of lumping ALPA National in with local MECS who make a lot of mistakes all on their own . The USAir MEC made a big one in the early 90's when they didn't want to fly RJ's that paid $100/hr. They thought it was beneath them. That mistake cost them dearly and has rippled through the industry. The MECs of USAir, UAL and DAL might ( again might have) have been able to salvage their A-plans if they had made tough decisions sooner. They might have been able to Freeze those plans like the NWA & CAL MEC's did. Again the individaul MECS are the ones who make the decsions for there own Pilot group, not ALPA National. If there would have been independent Unions at each of those carriers it is most likely that many of the same folks would be in leadership positions. Good leaders are good leaders and poor leaders are poor leaders, it doesn't matter what name they are under.

ALPA National has its warts, no question and I predict there will probably be some forced changes coming. The industry has taken a beating the past 7 years, again no question. That wasn't ALPA National's fault. The individual airline MEC's under the Bankruptciy Judges (for better or worse) approved their concessionary contracts.
That is more a function of sheer economic forces and an anti labor Admisinstration that anything else.

Like it or not in the Long Term history has proven ALPA carriers had the best contracts . Other successful airlines AA, SWA and UPS have all dove tailed off ALPA contracts and good on them.

Where was your criticism of ALPA when UAL, DAL NWA and USAir all had the top contracts just a few short years ago? Everyone always accepts all the Good ALPA does but never remembers it when things are bad.

Like it or Not, the Piloting profession is better off because of the efforts of ALPA. Other independent uinons at AA, SWA and UPS have all benefited from and dove tailed off ALPA's efforts. Even as Bad as things are, they would have been much worse without a National oragnization. We would all be better off if we as Professional Pilots were all under One Banner.

RedeyeAV8r

............................... duplicate post

ExperimentalAB

What does that have to do with anything? Yes he was a 35%'er... Do you really need to turn this thread into a peeing match?