UAL going out of business?
06-03-2008, 06:52 AM
#141
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Union
We have a standard but we don't adhere to it. All part 121 pilots should posses an ATP. That would raise the bar to entry level air carrier jobs. 50 and 70 seat RJs should have the same hours and experience requirement as 100 or 300 seat jets. We all operate in the same environment going to the same airports with the same people in our care.
The poster previous to this quote hit it on the head. To raise the cost of labor you have to make it more scarce. Controlling the entry level standards is one way to do that.
Once again, sorry for the thread drift/attempted "flaps are down!"
The poster previous to this quote hit it on the head. To raise the cost of labor you have to make it more scarce. Controlling the entry level standards is one way to do that.
Once again, sorry for the thread drift/attempted "flaps are down!"
The real issue is that unionism is dying in America.
SkyHigh
06-03-2008, 07:04 AM
#142
Bored
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Grumman Torture Device (weekends only)
Posts: 445
Umm, one of the measures of a CEO's value is the PE of the stock. If there's a CEO of a company I own stock in who isn't focused on that, I'll work to have him/her removed! If the CEO does a crappy job running the company, the stock will tank, if they run a solid, growing business, it will go up. They're related. Wow.
The question is, the time frame...short term or long?
Spongebob
The question is, the time frame...short term or long?
Spongebob
06-03-2008, 08:00 AM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Cessna 152 Captain
Posts: 695
We have a standard but we don't adhere to it. All part 121 pilots should posses an ATP. That would raise the bar to entry level air carrier jobs. 50 and 70 seat RJs should have the same hours and experience requirement as 100 or 300 seat jets. We all operate in the same environment going to the same airports with the same people in our care.
The poster previous to this quote hit it on the head. To raise the cost of labor you have to make it more scarce. Controlling the entry level standards is one way to do that.
Once again, sorry for the thread drift/attempted "flaps are down!"
The poster previous to this quote hit it on the head. To raise the cost of labor you have to make it more scarce. Controlling the entry level standards is one way to do that.
Once again, sorry for the thread drift/attempted "flaps are down!"
Wishful thinking even tho its all good. How ever that is not going to happen anytime soon not in our type of economy and culture I dont want to even go into some of the Variable involved in doing something like this..
As far as ALPA ask the USair America West folks just how smooth things are over there..
06-03-2008, 10:14 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
I Don't Want Alpa :(
You say unionism is dying in America? I think if unions stuck to protecting their own members and focused on safety and labor issues without getting involved into politics so much they'd have more clout...
Last edited by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE; 06-03-2008 at 10:37 AM.
06-03-2008, 08:30 PM
#147
First Rule of Fight Club
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: My seat smells like cat pee
Posts: 1,536
Here is a wall street journal article that came out a few hours ago. Looks like wednesday willl be the big day. All I can say is good luck guys we are all in this together.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1212...googlenews_wsj
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1212...googlenews_wsj
06-03-2008, 08:42 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Here is a wall street journal article that came out a few hours ago. Looks like wednesday willl be the big day. All I can say is good luck guys we are all in this together.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1212...googlenews_wsj
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1212...googlenews_wsj
06-03-2008, 08:45 PM
#149
First Rule of Fight Club
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: My seat smells like cat pee
Posts: 1,536
Here ya go. 
UAL Plans Major Fleet Reduction
To Cope With Surging Fuel Prices
By SUSAN CAREY
June 3, 2008 10:42 p.m.
United Airlines parent UAL Corp. on Wednesday is expected to announce it will cut its 460-aircraft mainline fleet by another 70 jetliners by the end of next year. The move will help the company cope with surging fuel expenses but also lead to a large but indeterminate number of furloughs of its unionized workforce and a major reduction in routes or daily flight frequencies operated, said people familiar with the matter.
A week after the nation's No. 2 airline by traffic rejected a plan to merge with US Airways Group Inc., UAL promised to take further steps as a standalone carrier to cope with industry conditions that now amount to a crisis. UAL already has said it would reduce its capacity -- seats on offer -- by a double-digit percentage by the fourth quarter of this year compared with the same period in 2007.
But with fuel so costly, many routes no longer are profitable even as fares continued to be pushed higher by the industry. And older aircraft, which are less fuel-efficient, are an increasing liability. AMR Corp.'s American Airlines, the largest U.S. carrier, recently announced a sizeable capacity reduction.
Some routes already have come out of United's published schedules. For instance, United later this year is dropping its flights from Chicago to Anchorage and from Los Angeles to Hong Kong. Many smaller, domestic routes are being cut back in terms of numbers of daily flight frequencies or by a reduction of United mainline flights and a substitution of flights by the airline's regional affiliates.
UAL plans to announce on Wednesday the removal of 64 more Boeing Co. 737s from its fleet by the end of next year, on top of 30 737s it already announced it would retire, said people familiar with the matter. The Chicago Tribune first reported the fleet reduction on its Web site Tuesday. UAL has 460 aircraft in its mainline fleet; its commuter affiliates operate another couple hundred smaller feeder aircraft.
The 64 Boeing 737-300s, which carry 123 passengers, have an average age of 19 years, according to the company's annual report. A majority are leased rather than owned. UAL already has said it plans to retire 30 737-500s, which seat 108 passengers. All those planes are owned instead of leased. The average age of those aircraft is 16 years.
In addition, Chicago-based UAL plans to pare six of its jumbo 747s from the fleet, said people familiar with the situation. United has 30 of that type, the majority owned rather than leased. The flagship 747s, four-engine, long-haul planes, serve some of the carrier's signature routes, primarily in Asia and Australia.
The fleet reductions will be explained to UAL's 55,000 employees on Wednesday. People familiar with the matter said the company will announce additional reductions of salaried and management workers, on top of the 500 or so jobs it recently said it would cut. News about reductions of unionized positions -- pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, reservationists, ramp workers and airport agents -- was expected to come later, said these people.
United is expected to rid itself of its "Ted" sub-branded service that serves domestic leisure destinations with 56 all-coach A320 aircraft. The company dreamed up Ted in the early days of its bankruptcy case, which ran from late 2002 to early 2006, as a way of reducing costs on its most competitive domestic routes by cramming more seats on the planes by doing away with first-class cabins.
Instead, the airline will put first-class cabins back on some of those planes, bowing to pressure from its premium passengers who didn't like flying coach to Sunbelt destinations, said a person with knowledge of the matter.
In spite of the fleet reductions, UAL continues to have owned aircraft that are unencumbered by loans and could be used as collateral for future fundraising. The company has said it could raise $3 billion with assets including planes, foreign routes, takeoff and landing slots and other collateral.
Other big U.S. airlines are expected to announce further capacity reductions in the coming days and weeks, as low-fare carriers continue to temper their growth plans and defer planned deliveries of new planes. Soaring fuel prices are expected to plunge all U.S. carriers by Southwest Airlines Co. deeply into the red this year and some analysts expect multiple bankruptcies later this year or in 2009 as the industry tries to cope with runaway oil prices.
UAL Plans Major Fleet Reduction
To Cope With Surging Fuel Prices
By SUSAN CAREY
June 3, 2008 10:42 p.m.
United Airlines parent UAL Corp. on Wednesday is expected to announce it will cut its 460-aircraft mainline fleet by another 70 jetliners by the end of next year. The move will help the company cope with surging fuel expenses but also lead to a large but indeterminate number of furloughs of its unionized workforce and a major reduction in routes or daily flight frequencies operated, said people familiar with the matter.
A week after the nation's No. 2 airline by traffic rejected a plan to merge with US Airways Group Inc., UAL promised to take further steps as a standalone carrier to cope with industry conditions that now amount to a crisis. UAL already has said it would reduce its capacity -- seats on offer -- by a double-digit percentage by the fourth quarter of this year compared with the same period in 2007.
But with fuel so costly, many routes no longer are profitable even as fares continued to be pushed higher by the industry. And older aircraft, which are less fuel-efficient, are an increasing liability. AMR Corp.'s American Airlines, the largest U.S. carrier, recently announced a sizeable capacity reduction.
Some routes already have come out of United's published schedules. For instance, United later this year is dropping its flights from Chicago to Anchorage and from Los Angeles to Hong Kong. Many smaller, domestic routes are being cut back in terms of numbers of daily flight frequencies or by a reduction of United mainline flights and a substitution of flights by the airline's regional affiliates.
UAL plans to announce on Wednesday the removal of 64 more Boeing Co. 737s from its fleet by the end of next year, on top of 30 737s it already announced it would retire, said people familiar with the matter. The Chicago Tribune first reported the fleet reduction on its Web site Tuesday. UAL has 460 aircraft in its mainline fleet; its commuter affiliates operate another couple hundred smaller feeder aircraft.
The 64 Boeing 737-300s, which carry 123 passengers, have an average age of 19 years, according to the company's annual report. A majority are leased rather than owned. UAL already has said it plans to retire 30 737-500s, which seat 108 passengers. All those planes are owned instead of leased. The average age of those aircraft is 16 years.
In addition, Chicago-based UAL plans to pare six of its jumbo 747s from the fleet, said people familiar with the situation. United has 30 of that type, the majority owned rather than leased. The flagship 747s, four-engine, long-haul planes, serve some of the carrier's signature routes, primarily in Asia and Australia.
The fleet reductions will be explained to UAL's 55,000 employees on Wednesday. People familiar with the matter said the company will announce additional reductions of salaried and management workers, on top of the 500 or so jobs it recently said it would cut. News about reductions of unionized positions -- pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, reservationists, ramp workers and airport agents -- was expected to come later, said these people.
United is expected to rid itself of its "Ted" sub-branded service that serves domestic leisure destinations with 56 all-coach A320 aircraft. The company dreamed up Ted in the early days of its bankruptcy case, which ran from late 2002 to early 2006, as a way of reducing costs on its most competitive domestic routes by cramming more seats on the planes by doing away with first-class cabins.
Instead, the airline will put first-class cabins back on some of those planes, bowing to pressure from its premium passengers who didn't like flying coach to Sunbelt destinations, said a person with knowledge of the matter.
In spite of the fleet reductions, UAL continues to have owned aircraft that are unencumbered by loans and could be used as collateral for future fundraising. The company has said it could raise $3 billion with assets including planes, foreign routes, takeoff and landing slots and other collateral.
Other big U.S. airlines are expected to announce further capacity reductions in the coming days and weeks, as low-fare carriers continue to temper their growth plans and defer planned deliveries of new planes. Soaring fuel prices are expected to plunge all U.S. carriers by Southwest Airlines Co. deeply into the red this year and some analysts expect multiple bankruptcies later this year or in 2009 as the industry tries to cope with runaway oil prices.
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