Getting bumped back from Captain
05-01-2008, 09:34 AM
#31
Never fly
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 330B
Posts: 163
I can see your friends position. As an FO you are invisible. No one cares about your opinions. Maintenance control or dispatch does not care what you think. Management does not want your input. The chief pilot does not know your name. You have no real responsibilities. The company has to dream up busy work to keep The FO awake and interested. You are merely a redundant system that is there to gain experience through observation. Even FA's and baggage handlers have more input and control over their environment.
As an FO passengers will stare at you in full uniform and three bars and ask "are you the pilot"? Meaning that the FO is not the pilot. And in reality the FO isn't. Most of the time the FO gets the same information about the flight as the passengers. The FO is one pilot to many in a job that requires a half alert person to begin with. They have superfluous and respect less job that really is "invisible". There isn't much satisfaction in the right seat.
SkyHigh
As an FO passengers will stare at you in full uniform and three bars and ask "are you the pilot"? Meaning that the FO is not the pilot. And in reality the FO isn't. Most of the time the FO gets the same information about the flight as the passengers. The FO is one pilot to many in a job that requires a half alert person to begin with. They have superfluous and respect less job that really is "invisible". There isn't much satisfaction in the right seat.
SkyHigh
05-01-2008, 09:45 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 6,009
IMHO... there is no such thing as a first officer... he/she is a future captain! They are an integral part of the team along with the F/As that make an operation a success!
Its unfortunate that when an airline cuts back its work force, the low numbered captain will be displaced to the right seat. That's the nature of the industry.
The choices are very limited... go back to the right seat... and collect a paycheck, even though its reduced, or quit.
Its unfortunate that when an airline cuts back its work force, the low numbered captain will be displaced to the right seat. That's the nature of the industry.
The choices are very limited... go back to the right seat... and collect a paycheck, even though its reduced, or quit.
05-01-2008, 12:01 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Admiral's club lounge
Posts: 631
I wondered if that 'up or out' policy still existed at AA. Perhaps my opinion is not popular, but I think it's pathetic how many career right seaters we have at CAL (many of them scabs). It shows a lack of ambition and poor leadership skills. (Disclaimer for CAL - our junior CA work rules are so horrible I suppose it's a viable excuse). Why does your union want the policy changed? I think it's a great way to have rather predictable movement on the seniority list and hold people to a higher standard. Like Human Resources always says: 'they're hiring Captains.'
Oh, and I'm definitely not good - just lucky.
Oh, and I'm definitely not good - just lucky.
05-01-2008, 12:07 PM
#37
11 soon to be 10 days off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Left seat, wait right seat, no no left seat, nope right seat! Ummmm, I guess I am confused
Posts: 275
Sky is correct about a few things; for example maint., they only listen to the Captain--which they should. However, the Captain should listen to all the information (much of it coming from the F/O usually) before communicating with the maint. guy/girl. Also, passengers will usually think that someone standing off to the side looking at the floor doesn't have ultimate responsibility for their life for the next few hours and will inherently ask if "they are the pilot" just to reassure themselves.
I am certainly not in Sky's corner here but merely pointing out the fact that if someone acts like a secondhand person/crew member then people will treat them like one. If an F/O is assertive, professional, respectful, helpful, curteous and knowledgeable then they will get all that in return. I have flown with very few captains who treated me like the invisible person. When I do encounter that I just do my job as best as I can but I still never back down on being an integral part of the CREW. I haven't had a problem with a captain about that yet. We aren't always friends but we both know where we stand. I hope that when I upgrade I treat all my F/Os and FAs with the respect they deserve and if I don't that they call me on it.
I am certainly not in Sky's corner here but merely pointing out the fact that if someone acts like a secondhand person/crew member then people will treat them like one. If an F/O is assertive, professional, respectful, helpful, curteous and knowledgeable then they will get all that in return. I have flown with very few captains who treated me like the invisible person. When I do encounter that I just do my job as best as I can but I still never back down on being an integral part of the CREW. I haven't had a problem with a captain about that yet. We aren't always friends but we both know where we stand. I hope that when I upgrade I treat all my F/Os and FAs with the respect they deserve and if I don't that they call me on it.
05-01-2008, 12:23 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,576
I remember a time long ago at a regional; I was the FO and the ground crew wanted to take the ground power. CA said for me to give them the disconnect signal, so I did. They ignored me and looked at the CA. He said for me to give them the signal again, because he will not. We sat there for awhile until they finally disconnected the ground power. He was mad that they ignored me as the FO.
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