CE750

EVER HEAR OF THE OLDEST TRICK IN THE MANAGEMENT BOOK? HOW MANY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS DID THEY MAKE IN THE WAKE OF 9/11?

Red Herring.

PCL_128

Hardly a red herring. If they didn't take the concessions, then the bankruptcy courts would have crammed worse concessions down their throats, and you know it.

mulcher

Airlines were in trouble well before 9/11.

CE750

An absolute lie with regards to DAL.. I know 5 of them flying now at SX, and have several other friends from DAL. The guys at SX,all 5 left early against their wishes to save their pensions and were in the trenches on this matter at that time. All say it was because ALPA convinced the majority of pilots at DAL to take the deep cuts, and nix their retirement, EVEN THOUGH the Judge wasn't prepared to do any such thing, they would have been much better of with what the Judge ordered... DALPA wasn't to blame, but ALPA national which lobbied DALPA to take the contract, which COULD NOT be amended but had to be voted on as is, by the demands of the company. A major point of which was written in plain english.. the termination of the defined benefit plan.


I'm done here.

CE750

Hate to say it, but I agree with him... I was hired at American pre-9/11 as they were parking 727's daily due to fuel costs (and not replacing them at anywhere near the rate), and other pressures (partly due to the LCC's in the domestic market). The only good part was I didn't have to go to the panel on the 72, the bad part is 1000+ jobs went away as a result of the 60+ airplanes going away.

mulcher

Boy that had to hurt a little. How many times did it take before you actually hit the enter button. LOL 9/11 just sped the process up a little.

PCL_128

Your first mistake was listening to average line pilots about what was going to happen with a bankruptcy judge's decision. They don't have a clue. The ALPA leadership that is going before the judge and being advised by competent attorneys are the ones you should be listening to. Just because somebody "worked at DAL" doesn't mean that they have the slightest clue what would have happened in BK court. If they're really dumb enough to believe that the BK judge would have let DALPA keep their pensions, payrates, and work rules after every other airline had made massive concessions, then they probably shouldn't be flying airliners for a living.

CE750

You know, if you were as nice as the guys I j/s back and forth (I've sat in the cockpit a half dozen times, and have enjoyed the great company of Southwest pilots), we'd get on much better!

But, yes, any student of the industry knows 9/11 was not a major factor to the re-shaping of the industry. It was like a shock that sent it to it's end point, skipping over the painful spiral down.

The problem stems (in my view), from the total deregulation that occurred in '78. There profit motive and the free market don't work great in the airline model. Southwest just proved that again (not picking on them, as al airlines do this), with the inspections fiasco.. We need some sort of re-regulation and price control so that airlines (mine included) can actually turn a reasonable profit without killing their workers, and sacrifice safety.

CE750

APA took no such concessions, I am proud to say, and they were always under the "threat" of BK.. they called the companies bluff and won.

It was opportunism for managers to get those concessions, and hind sight proved it. The billions in the bank proved it. The BK judge in the DAL case is on record saying he had no plans to remove the pension. This was done when managers forced DALPA to take the contract "as is" and the wording on the retirement was added.

PCL_128

Agree completely on this point. It's time for a return to regulation.