stepchild

Mulch,

Still looking for your response from anyother thread regarding SX but this is along the same lines. You said previously you wouldn't work for the "old" SWA for low wages but do now. SX is very low, even I understand that. What is the difference between SX starting low but working their way up and the legacies taking bug cuts and not really going back up, yet. What am I missing here?

If SX stays low and working conditions/QOL get worse then I'm guessing most guys will go elsewhere.

I have a long way to go on understanding 121 but is it all about $$ and only about$$?

SC

bluejuice

Stepchild,

I've been meaning to reply to your earlier post, but I've been flying all week. Anyway, the SX guys are getting no respect because they are not entry level, inexperienced pilots subjecting themselves to poverty level pay. That's what makes it bad. SX might offer other intangibles, such as stock options, out and backs, day flying, whatever it is, but realize that these perks don't pay the bills.

Most of us with civilian backgrounds have had jobs which have paid more to fly alot less equipment. For example, 35k to start is pathetic. You can make that flying a baron for Airnet. 65k for an Airbus captain is very low as well. I used to make that flying a King Air 15 years ago. So as you can see, the SX heartache comes from accepting a job that is so far below industry standard it's really sad. Most of these guys could be flying for ALL the legacies and ALL the cargo's, so I can't understand why they would sell themselves so short. And before you say stock options, or whatever, SX could give you 10 million options, but if they never make a dollar or never go public, those 10 million options aren't worth crap. Look at an SX price comparison with other LCC's and their fares are more expensive. How are they going to make money like this?

As for the legacies, the past decade has been tough, but look at their recent earnings, furlough callbacks, hiring projections and it looks like the industry is turning better for them. There's nothing set in stone, but I'm sure you'd rather be making 60-70k as an entry level FO at a legacy than 35k as an FO at SX.

Also with your military background, you should have no problem hooking up with a major, cargo or an LCC. Don't sell yourself short.

UBA727

Bluejuice all I am going to say is: US Air East $25.00/H, Continental $31.00/H and Northwest $30.00/H. This are all 1st year pay, so do you consider them pathetic also. This are legacies that you speak of. Also the first year pay rates if anyone was hired off the street at this companies (I know no one is ever hired at a legacy of the street as a captain but the rates are there) are very similar to the F/O pay rates quoted above. uba727

bluejuice

I think it's safe to assume that most airlines 1st year pay stinks, no getting around that. I also think there are alot more upside options at the majors, lccs, cargos, and fractionals than at SX (airplanes, domiciles, route structure, etc). Pay isn't everything, but 35/65k isn't going to take you very far in today's economic environment.

I hope the union does get in, because the longer SX goes without making money, it's the employees that are going to suffer and foot the bill.

CE750

You've always got to come in with your provincial comments, don't you?

PCL_128

stepchild

Blue,

Welcome back, I hope the trips went well.

Thank you for the well worded response. I am still learning the 121 industry and you have given me some things to think about.

Can you explain the doubled edged nature of some others posts dealing with SX affecting industry pay and being high risk? How can they be high risk, i.e. not be here next year, and have such an affect? I know the industry very tough but a 7 plane outfit can't be a threat to a major.

Do you think the SX pilots are taking too big a risk or making a bad desision? I'm guessing many of us have take some big investment risk while thinking about risk vs. payoff. My issue is I have a slight pro-risk personality, it may go with the mil types. Not X-game risk mind you but some times you have to get off the beaten path.

I haven't taken SX off the list but the phone is not ringing off the hook with the other apps yet.

Fly safe,

SC

stepchild

CE750,

Can you expand on why the pilots want to bring in a union so quickly? Do you normally give a company time or is this a case of the pilots giving some notice that management is being watched?

SC

JetPiedmont

I take it you don't agree. Care to say why?

bluejuice

IMO, SX isn't a threat to anybody except it's own employees. They're a young upstart company with new airplanes, but they already have higher prices than their competitors, it looks like their employees are not happy, they can't pay any raises or COLAS unless they make money (which isn't going to happen anytime soon), and the pilots are already in the process of unionizing, which is a very bad thing for small, startup airlines. All indications point to failure right now. Not saying that it won't change, but it's an uphill battle.

Risk is something that each individual can only assess for themselves. But I ask you this. Exactly where is the payoff in SX? It's going to take awhile for the company to make money (year or two at best), so profit sharing is out the window. Also, it's going to take a string of profits in order to take the company public in order to realize any gains in your stock options, which is going to be years. So there you are, making 65k with no defined annual raise structure, 70/30 on insurance which is at the company's whim, and an economy that is definitely heading towards recession. You're 65k today is most certainly not going to be worth 65k in five years. So exactly where is the payoff here?

There are plenty of opportunities in today's industry. For example, you'll make 65k your 1st year at NetJets. I assume you'll get a reserve job somewhere, so couple that with one of the better jobs and you'll be in a great position in a couple of years. IMO, there is no need to take a gargantuan risk.