DAL 757s from JFK
03-03-2008, 06:50 PM
#11
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
You'd hold a line sooner on the 88. While getting to fly the ER as a new hire is great, all it is going to take is a decent increase in pay ($10.00+/hr) over domestic and myself and most likely a few hundred other domestic FOs will bid over, relegating you to reserve for a long time. Same deal if by some chance we (DL and NW) pilots are dumb enough to let the merger go through. Senior NW guys will fill in above you, keeping you on reserve.
03-03-2008, 07:15 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 128
You'd hold a line sooner on the 88. While getting to fly the ER as a new hire is great, all it is going to take is a decent increase in pay ($10.00+/hr) over domestic and myself and most likely a few hundred other domestic FOs will bid over, relegating you to reserve for a long time. Same deal if by some chance we (DL and NW) pilots are dumb enough to let the merger go through. Senior NW guys will fill in above you, keeping you on reserve.
Are you privy to some factual information that caused your opposition to this merger? I haven't decided one way or the other because I haven't seen the package. I'd be interested to hear your reasons.
In the long run I don't think the NW/Delta pilot groups have the power to "let" anyone stop this thing if management really wants it to happen.
03-03-2008, 07:24 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Trying to remember "Thrust Normal", "Checks", and something else besides "How are the rides today?"
Posts: 117
JDMJ,
Are you privy to some factual information that caused your opposition to this merger? I haven't decided one way or the other because I haven't seen the package. I'd be interested to hear your reasons.
In the long run I don't think the NW/Delta pilot groups have the power to "let" anyone stop this thing if management really wants it to happen.
Are you privy to some factual information that caused your opposition to this merger? I haven't decided one way or the other because I haven't seen the package. I'd be interested to hear your reasons.
In the long run I don't think the NW/Delta pilot groups have the power to "let" anyone stop this thing if management really wants it to happen.
Please quit hijacking threads about this merger business. The moderators have designed a special thread just for you so everyone can hear your opinions about the latest rumours concerning the merger or lack thereof. I and I suppose many others here are tired of threads getting hijacked.
Thanks.
03-03-2008, 07:35 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: MD-88 F/O
Posts: 123
You'd hold a line sooner on the 88. While getting to fly the ER as a new hire is great, all it is going to take is a decent increase in pay ($10.00+/hr) over domestic and myself and most likely a few hundred other domestic FOs will bid over, relegating you to reserve for a long time. Same deal if by some chance we (DL and NW) pilots are dumb enough to let the merger go through. Senior NW guys will fill in above you, keeping you on reserve.
First, what's to think that if/when the merger does happen there won't be "fences" around aircraft? Seeing as how it apparently takes quite a long time to get to wide-body a/c at NW, I would imagine that anyone on the Airbus and Boeing aircraft at NW would probably not "move" and those that did, prob. won't make much difference to an integrated senority list anyway. As for the rest, that leaves the fences to prevent exactly what you suggest. Doesn't make sense to allow senior NW people to displace trained DAL people and vice-versa - not cost effective. (I know that doesn't really make a good argument, but let's have faith that both sides have learned from their "leaner" economic times.)
Secondly, "keeping you on reserve for a long time" - Define "long time."
1 year? 2 years? 5 years. IMHO, not all that much in a 25+ year career (of course ask me again when I've been on reserve for 3 years!?
) But overall, I'd be willing to bet reserve as an FO for 5 years would beat what it was like to be an FE for 5 years a "few" years or so ago? Any of the more "experienced" folks want to add thoughts?Also,I'd be willing to bet many people chose the 88 for scheduling and domicile reasons vs. money also. If the +$10/hr was the case, why didn't they just choose the 7ER to begin with or in an AE? (It already goes up +$9 the 2nd year and +$11 the 3rd?)
PS What about these 757s out of NYC anyway!?...
03-04-2008, 05:55 AM
#15
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
The company doesn't want fences and will not accept any agreement with them. Got that from a union birdie.
As far as pay, the difference between domestic and international 767 is only $3.00/hr. Also, there are no 2nd and 3rd year pay FOs at Delta. Well maybe not 3rd year. The guys hired in early 07 must be getting close. The next lowest pay group would be 7 year pay FOs. As far as $3.00/hr it's not worth my time to give up QOL for. Same for all the guys around my seniority, late 00 early 01. I have several friends that can hold 88A in NYC but choose to fly 76 domestic for the QOL. But make it worth their while, (pay) then they will put up with the crap life of reserve.
While I think it's great that you guys are getting to fly something that I never had a shot at as a newhire, I also think that it is an abberation caused by the low pay difference and if the company ever fixes it, we will see more senior guys bidding ER. Again, this isn't a slam on the noobs, I'm happy you're here, but I hear and read comments and I get the immpression that SOME of them almost feel that if they don't get a chance to bid ER on the first day then they were somehow cheated.
As far as pay, the difference between domestic and international 767 is only $3.00/hr. Also, there are no 2nd and 3rd year pay FOs at Delta. Well maybe not 3rd year. The guys hired in early 07 must be getting close. The next lowest pay group would be 7 year pay FOs. As far as $3.00/hr it's not worth my time to give up QOL for. Same for all the guys around my seniority, late 00 early 01. I have several friends that can hold 88A in NYC but choose to fly 76 domestic for the QOL. But make it worth their while, (pay) then they will put up with the crap life of reserve.
While I think it's great that you guys are getting to fly something that I never had a shot at as a newhire, I also think that it is an abberation caused by the low pay difference and if the company ever fixes it, we will see more senior guys bidding ER. Again, this isn't a slam on the noobs, I'm happy you're here, but I hear and read comments and I get the immpression that SOME of them almost feel that if they don't get a chance to bid ER on the first day then they were somehow cheated.
Last edited by Justdoinmyjob; 03-04-2008 at 06:03 AM.
03-04-2008, 07:02 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Bebe Bus De L'Air Assistant Aerial Conveyance Facilitator
Posts: 351
The company doesn't want fences and will not accept any agreement with them. Got that from a union birdie.
As far as pay, the difference between domestic and international 767 is only $3.00/hr. Also, there are no 2nd and 3rd year pay FOs at Delta. Well maybe not 3rd year. The guys hired in early 07 must be getting close. The next lowest pay group would be 7 year pay FOs. As far as $3.00/hr it's not worth my time to give up QOL for. Same for all the guys around my seniority, late 00 early 01. I have several friends that can hold 88A in NYC but choose to fly 76 domestic for the QOL. But make it worth their while, (pay) then they will put up with the crap life of reserve.
While I think it's great that you guys are getting to fly something that I never had a shot at as a newhire, I also think that it is an abberation caused by the low pay difference and if the company ever fixes it, we will see more senior guys bidding ER. Again, this isn't a slam on the noobs, I'm happy you're here, but I hear and read comments and I get the immpression that SOME of them almost feel that if they don't get a chance to bid ER on the first day then they were somehow cheated.
As far as pay, the difference between domestic and international 767 is only $3.00/hr. Also, there are no 2nd and 3rd year pay FOs at Delta. Well maybe not 3rd year. The guys hired in early 07 must be getting close. The next lowest pay group would be 7 year pay FOs. As far as $3.00/hr it's not worth my time to give up QOL for. Same for all the guys around my seniority, late 00 early 01. I have several friends that can hold 88A in NYC but choose to fly 76 domestic for the QOL. But make it worth their while, (pay) then they will put up with the crap life of reserve.
While I think it's great that you guys are getting to fly something that I never had a shot at as a newhire, I also think that it is an abberation caused by the low pay difference and if the company ever fixes it, we will see more senior guys bidding ER. Again, this isn't a slam on the noobs, I'm happy you're here, but I hear and read comments and I get the immpression that SOME of them almost feel that if they don't get a chance to bid ER on the first day then they were somehow cheated.
As for the last statement, I hope I'm not one of those who comes across that way. If I do, that certainly isn't the intention. I just feel blessed and lucky to be even given the chance to bid on the 767 at what has always been my first-choice airline. If they tell me I'm going to be flying a C-152 in Delta colors, I will just be as happy. I definitely wouldn't feel cheated.
03-04-2008, 11:46 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: MD-88 F/O
Posts: 123
"the difference between domestic and international 767 is only $3.00/hr. Also, there are no 2nd and 3rd year pay FOs at Delta. Well maybe not 3rd year. The guys hired in early 07 must be getting close. The next lowest pay group would be 7 year pay FOs. As far as $3.00/hr it's not worth my time to give up QOL for."
I was speaking of pay difference between the 88 compared wth the 7ER at $10 an hour for 2nd year? I think that's right But i guess thats apples and oranges when you are referring to the 7th year FO pay group and I'm just a new guy talking about 1,2 and 3rd year! Apologies.
As for feeling cheated? Can't speak for others, but I've been a professional pilot and "earning" my keep for over 15 years and I chose the civilian/corporate route!? I'm just happy to have the opportunity to finally make it to the "big time!" I'll go there day 1 and if I can get an ER great! - "way cool" But, on the other hand, if they say your on the 88 too, I'm not going to up and walk out - it's a win, win for me! I'm happy to be in the stadium!
PS Hey "UP", Not sure about a C-152 - AT LEAST give me a twin!?...
I was speaking of pay difference between the 88 compared wth the 7ER at $10 an hour for 2nd year? I think that's right But i guess thats apples and oranges when you are referring to the 7th year FO pay group and I'm just a new guy talking about 1,2 and 3rd year! Apologies.
As for feeling cheated? Can't speak for others, but I've been a professional pilot and "earning" my keep for over 15 years and I chose the civilian/corporate route!? I'm just happy to have the opportunity to finally make it to the "big time!" I'll go there day 1 and if I can get an ER great! - "way cool" But, on the other hand, if they say your on the 88 too, I'm not going to up and walk out - it's a win, win for me! I'm happy to be in the stadium!
PS Hey "UP", Not sure about a C-152 - AT LEAST give me a twin!?...
03-04-2008, 05:35 PM
#18
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Guys,
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not pointing fingers at you guys. I guess it's just the feeling I got from one or two noobs doing their jumpseat rides, some of their comments. Anyway, welcome aboard and I'd be happy to buy you guys some cold ones if we run into each other.
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not pointing fingers at you guys. I guess it's just the feeling I got from one or two noobs doing their jumpseat rides, some of their comments. Anyway, welcome aboard and I'd be happy to buy you guys some cold ones if we run into each other.
03-04-2008, 09:10 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 516
Keep in mind that if the 76ER F/O is still on reserve after the first year, he's making the 70 hour reserve guarantee. The 88 F/O most certainly is a lineholder and if he has a 78-80 hour line, he's going to make up that $10 difference in pay and gross as much the ER guy (and make more if he flies more than 80 hours....though as a lifelong slacker, I wouldn't advise working that hard)
03-04-2008, 10:24 PM
#20
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Though this may not hold true over the next 12 months, I was a Feb 2007 new hire.
Everyone in my class has been on reserve except for our 1 NYC 7ER member, who held her first line this month.
We are currently made up of 2 ATL 767, 1 ATL 7ER, multiple ATL M88, and an ATL 73N.
Most, if not all, of us that are not ATL 7ER, will hold a line in April.
Food for thought.
Everyone in my class has been on reserve except for our 1 NYC 7ER member, who held her first line this month.
We are currently made up of 2 ATL 767, 1 ATL 7ER, multiple ATL M88, and an ATL 73N.
Most, if not all, of us that are not ATL 7ER, will hold a line in April.
Food for thought.
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