NotTooBad

I was asked this question by a Capt. who is studying for a mainline interview somewhere. The question was...what are the takeoff minimums for an aircraft certified for Cat IIIc taking off from an airport that is Cat IIIc compliant?

Argument 1: Takeoff mins are 0/0 because they can get back in because that is their lowest mins.

Argument 2: Takeoff mins are the lowest of the Cat I procedures because more than likely if something breaks to warrant an airport return...they probably aren't in a configuration that allows Cat III approaches. (ie Busting an engine on takeoff)

Anyone know that actual truth to this? If someone could provide a resource for this information (even company manuals - not necessarily FAR's) that would be awesome.

Happy thinkin'

Photon

Maybe I'm an ignorant student pilot, but the takeoff minimums are either standard (1sm for 1 and 2 engine aircraft, 1/2 sm for 3-4 engine aircraft), or they are non-standard, and listed in the approach plate for that airport?

atlmsl

Takeoff mins are based on Cat I

ExperimentalAB

Cat I

You cannot use special approaches like a II or III for any mins...

atlmsl

I should rephrase... Takeoff mins and requiring a takeoff alternate are two different things... at ASA we are allowed to depart with 600 RVR at some airports, but require a takeoff alternate with anything below Cat I mins. Even if the airport is Cat II/III equipped, a T/O alternate must be provided if weather is below Cat I

ridejumpfly

If youve got CL and RCLM you can expect t/o mins to be RVR 6/6/6 rule.
According to the everything explained for the Prof pilot you can consider CAT 2 and 3 availability if the certificate holder is authorized for that approach when determining if the takeoff airport is below mins for landing. I assume that companies exempt themselves from this in the interest of safety.

Dash8Pilot

There seems to be some confusion about takeoff minimums vs. requirements for a takeoff alternate. Neither of the two arguments in the original post would change the takeoff minimums, as the ability to return to the field is a concern when determining if a takeoff alternate is necessary.

Unless equipped with an approved guidance system, RVR 5/5/5 is the lowest I've seen. An HGS will get you RVR 3/3/3 at a few airports.

Photon

on a different note. When you land with CAT IIIc, and you're standing on the runway with absolute 0 visibility (like can't see your arm in front of you type 0/0), how do you taxi without going into the grass?

showboats

Argument one is correct. If Cat III gets you down to 0/0 (not sure about that one since I'm a 135 guy...currently)


I'm not currently a 121 guy but I just read about this in "Everything Explained for the Professional Pilot" by Richie Lengel so that is reference.

On page 259 in reference to IFR Takeoff Mins it states that FAR 121.617 requires a takeoff alternate if weather below IFR landing mins at departure airport. It goes on to break it down into aircraft with two engines or aircraft with two or more engines....'nuff said.

Next to that paragraph is a note stating, and I quote "The flight plan (or flight release) must specify a takeoff alternate if the weather at the airport is below landing minimums for the airport. Any landing minimums at the takeoff airport that are authorized for the certificate holder may be considered including Category II or III ILS approaches"

Although the paragraph does not directly reference any source document for that statement, at the top of the page he lists all the FAR's and OpSpecs that were consulted prior to printing that page. The list reads like this:

[91.175(f), 91.1039, 121.617, 121.619, 121.625, 121.651, 135.217, OpSpec C057 & C058 or C079]

Possibly in one of the above regs you might find the "legal" answer you are looking for....who knows?

*Disclaimer*

I do not have the latest revision to this book so the interpretation or regulation may have changed since my book was printed.

And yes...I have entirely too much time on my hands to be responding to this on a Saturday night. Got tired of studying for my checkride!

767200

Don't know the actual answer but, the REAL question behind is... Can this airplane land Cat 3 SINGLE ENGINE? If so it may be a possiblity that you don't need one. Remember T/O alternates are for when you loose an engine and need to land somewhere but your origin airport is below minimums.