DAL MEC talks about Mergers
01-10-2008, 07:18 AM
#41
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 62
Times change. The fact is that any merging on Legacies will have many hurdles to get over to win approval. That does not mean that they will not try.
Each execuitive branch knows that they are being forced in to a decision from multiple sources. ( Fuel, Bush leaving office, and the board members).
With all of this external pressure, it is only inevitable that someone tries. DAL will probably be the first that will announce, due to the fact that their board is stacked with people that want them to merge. IE hedge fund managers. I am sure that DAL has been fighting this tooth and nail, but at the end of the day they are squirrel's chasing a nut like us. They have people that they need to answer to as well.
Each execuitive branch knows that they are being forced in to a decision from multiple sources. ( Fuel, Bush leaving office, and the board members).
With all of this external pressure, it is only inevitable that someone tries. DAL will probably be the first that will announce, due to the fact that their board is stacked with people that want them to merge. IE hedge fund managers. I am sure that DAL has been fighting this tooth and nail, but at the end of the day they are squirrel's chasing a nut like us. They have people that they need to answer to as well.
I do diverge with you in the fact that this combination would not pass DOJ muster. Whatever needs to be done for approval will be examined. That is why I am advocating the reduction in ATL. Also, the unions have little to say over this deal. They may try to steer the deal in a direction that is favorable to them, but in the end they have little legal recourse. I'm sure there are provisions in the respective contracts that will be triggered in a consolidating event, but in the end, mgt. wins. The unions will claim victory because of some deal that is reached that suits the senior employees at each airline. They control the dialogue that will drive the discussions with mgt. All the unions talk big to their constituents, but in the end, they compromise and sell the fact they caved to the rank and file as the best deal they could get. It's happens every day in politics and is no different with unions.
Air France just announced that their deal will result in approx. 1600 furloughs/layoffs. I suspect at least that on the pilot side in the NWA/DAL merger. I can't fathom it not happening. The whole idea behind this consolidation cycle is about reducing, not growing.
01-10-2008, 07:21 AM
#42
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
You're right..........times are changing. The problem is that as soon as a merger is done with, our government lets a few more airlines either start up, or fly into our country to supposedly "increase" competition. It's like they can't screw this industry enough. I have a feeling "open skies" is going to "open a can of worms" and hurt our industry even more than it's already hurting. 
01-10-2008, 07:37 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Delta Colors Busholio
Posts: 233
According to the ATA, NWA has the newest international fleet of aircraft of any US airline. Additionally, according to Jim Jubak, MSN financial editor, NWA recently posted the highest 3Q profit margin of any legacy operator within the past 10 years and is forecasted to remain profitable with fuel prices well in excess of 100.00 per barrel.
As the US launch customer for the 787, this long range family of aircraft is "right-sized" for those ultra long range flights to the smaller cities (20 mil, about 10 times the size of Orange County, CA) within China that are not under frequency regulation that the top four cities fall under. The majority of the world's growth stems from Asia and NWA has always had a strong posture within this region. Based on these facts alone, I foresee a strong future for NWA; more so than the double breasted uniformed folks vying for survival on the highly competitive European routes. After all, DAL is notorious for it’s withdrawal from the AA and SWA dominated DFW/DAL hubs. Furthermore, Delta’s year-over-year transfer of it’s domestic flying to Skywest would lead me to believe that even the 25 year old mad dogs may see their end in the near future without any consolidation to trigger it. At NWA, the regional affiliates and their aircraft orders have already pushed to the limits of scope with no further expansion possible, assuming the 50 seat RJ goes the way of the V-8 in a daily driver.
Before one group of pilots should so arrogantly bash the heritage and accomplishments of another, perhaps a bit more research is needed. In my humble opinion, the culture among the pilots at NWA is great and HR is actively pushing for a SWA type culture, contrast this to other stiff upper-lip style groups notorious for arrogance. As a former military veteran who spent one year in Iraq, it saddens me to think of my lost brothers over there, one of which was my unit SP, another being my class leader from flight school and how any one of them would have given slightly less than what they did to be with a legacy carrier. I contrast these real men to the p-u-d knockers who bicker over not being able to retire within the top 100 of a company that employs what, 6000 pilots? Isn’t 12 year pay the highest anyway? How proud your family must be, how women must view them as arrogant geeks. I would love to have some face time with these kids and shed some reality their way.
As the US launch customer for the 787, this long range family of aircraft is "right-sized" for those ultra long range flights to the smaller cities (20 mil, about 10 times the size of Orange County, CA) within China that are not under frequency regulation that the top four cities fall under. The majority of the world's growth stems from Asia and NWA has always had a strong posture within this region. Based on these facts alone, I foresee a strong future for NWA; more so than the double breasted uniformed folks vying for survival on the highly competitive European routes. After all, DAL is notorious for it’s withdrawal from the AA and SWA dominated DFW/DAL hubs. Furthermore, Delta’s year-over-year transfer of it’s domestic flying to Skywest would lead me to believe that even the 25 year old mad dogs may see their end in the near future without any consolidation to trigger it. At NWA, the regional affiliates and their aircraft orders have already pushed to the limits of scope with no further expansion possible, assuming the 50 seat RJ goes the way of the V-8 in a daily driver.
Before one group of pilots should so arrogantly bash the heritage and accomplishments of another, perhaps a bit more research is needed. In my humble opinion, the culture among the pilots at NWA is great and HR is actively pushing for a SWA type culture, contrast this to other stiff upper-lip style groups notorious for arrogance. As a former military veteran who spent one year in Iraq, it saddens me to think of my lost brothers over there, one of which was my unit SP, another being my class leader from flight school and how any one of them would have given slightly less than what they did to be with a legacy carrier. I contrast these real men to the p-u-d knockers who bicker over not being able to retire within the top 100 of a company that employs what, 6000 pilots? Isn’t 12 year pay the highest anyway? How proud your family must be, how women must view them as arrogant geeks. I would love to have some face time with these kids and shed some reality their way.
01-10-2008, 07:57 AM
#45
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Maybe they will furlough may be not, either way I am looking at alternatives. No one should be stupid to think that they give a darn about us. We are a commodity, and fact is for them to win some one needs to loose. That is almost always the employee groups.
01-10-2008, 09:04 AM
#46
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
Rotorhead:
The recent trend at DL is the transfer of flying back to the more efficient MD88's from the less efficient RJ's. In fact, Delta is getting more MD's, 7 to 9 this year we think, maybe more.
You raise good points, but the few NWA guys I know love the prospect of a DL tie up and the junior DL guys pretty much all say they are exploring their options should this come to pass. The common knowledge is that the bottom of the Delta list beats a date with Northwest, or is it Compass, or some other B scale? My friends who hav interviewed at NWA have been given evasive answers to their honest questions about just what a job with NWA means. They seem to think a flush to the regional is a very real possibility.
We will have to see. No disrespect is intended to Northwest's history, culture, or accomplishments. Like ACL said - we are just pawns in this game. But, we certainly have the right to quit rather than start over at the bottom of a Company we have zero interest in working for... nobody will miss us.
The recent trend at DL is the transfer of flying back to the more efficient MD88's from the less efficient RJ's. In fact, Delta is getting more MD's, 7 to 9 this year we think, maybe more.
You raise good points, but the few NWA guys I know love the prospect of a DL tie up and the junior DL guys pretty much all say they are exploring their options should this come to pass. The common knowledge is that the bottom of the Delta list beats a date with Northwest, or is it Compass, or some other B scale? My friends who hav interviewed at NWA have been given evasive answers to their honest questions about just what a job with NWA means. They seem to think a flush to the regional is a very real possibility.
We will have to see. No disrespect is intended to Northwest's history, culture, or accomplishments. Like ACL said - we are just pawns in this game. But, we certainly have the right to quit rather than start over at the bottom of a Company we have zero interest in working for... nobody will miss us.
01-10-2008, 10:01 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
Yea, I'm looking at number 7 myself but that's a long way away and the least of my considerations right now. I'm sure someone was set to retire with single digit seniority numbers at EAL, Pan Am, and TWA as well.
01-10-2008, 11:24 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Delta Colors Busholio
Posts: 233
So the worst case scenario for a hewhire is Captain at Compass. That transition would be a 100% boost in pay from first year at NWA and includes a Lineage 1000 type rating. All one would have to do is fly the line for 500 hours and jump off to a corporate gig paying 85 to 150K a year until recalled at what, year 2 or 3 pay at Delta? I am just trying to stay positive here, but a furlough to a Captain gig on an E-175 beats they heck out of selling cars or bone density scanners! Of course, if we are talking more than a few hundred furloughed, 115 hired to date, then it would be off to the Honda dealer or AGR!
01-10-2008, 11:57 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: B767A[ret.]
Posts: 593
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