bryantchan1

Hi There--

I'm currently a student pursuing a bachelors in business administration at an aviation university. I am also pursuing my flight ratings and will graduate with my commercial multi. I may or may not go for my MBA from the same institution directly after graduation, continuing to fly during that time. My goal is to go far in airline management (route planning/network capacity positions seem like a great starting point), but there's one problem--I have a burning desire to fly.

My question: Is there a way to be in management but be able to fly trips for the airline too in my "spare time" (weekends)? If so, is the best way to do this to start as a pilot for the airline and then apply for a management position, or get established in management and then somehow wiggle my way into flight operations on a special part-time basis?

Since I would be interested in going into management at a major airline, it would seem almost impossible to get into flying at a major airline with the big equipment without a substantial amount of flight time already accrued, and it seems like the only way to make that happen is by flying first.

I'll expand on my question as I get some answers, but any insight?

Thanks; I appreciate any help!

JoeyMeatballs

Chief Pilot

paxhauler85

You'll definately have to fly the line for quite some time, and upgrade to be elgible for any sort of management position.

Along the way, you'll have to meet the current management types, rub elbows with them, impress them, and finally show interest in a job when a vacancy comes availible.

Not that I know everything, but I think the majors are going to want someone who has flown the line from both seats, and has a good working knowledge of the daily ops of the airline before they put them in a position to make decisions on their (the airline's) behalf. This experience takes time to acrue.

Once in the management role, you can fly on weekends if you so choose but most I think would avoid a 7 day work week. The few that I have known try to get out of the office (during the week) a least once a month to fly between 2-4 days. Some try and fail at this and will have to go out with a check airman to get current in the airplane again.

HSLD

I've always been curious as to the thought process of those who "want to get into flight operations management". Just curious: Why?

I've never seen pilot/manager at any level that really has the horsepower to affect real change at the airline level. I encourage you to pursue you goals, although can you share what the attraction is with flight operations management from your perspective?

detpilot

Possibly increased pay? Better stability (less risk of a furlough...sure if your seniority number goes down for furlough you won't fly, but you'd still have the management spot).

bryantchan1

Sure! And in fact, that was going to be my next question to address: Most importantly, is there going to be tension/aloofness in the cockpit if people know you're from/aspiring to be in the "dark side"?

I'm actually a big union fan (at least in the realm of aviation--NATCA and ALPA ring strong messages for me). I think the treatment both controllers and pilots undergo as a result of management at certain times is despicable. I also think it's sad that many airline executives were hired from outside the airline and from non-airline backgrounds. This, perhaps, is one reason why so many airlines are failing, and not just financially. I think it takes someone intimately familiar with both the operational and managerial side of the operation--BOTH--to be able to do a management job effectively. Too many only know the management part of the equation.

Flying is my #1 passion. I don't think I would go into management if it meant my future union brothers and sisters would hate me, or if it meant having to forgo flying.

As for why management appeals to me? No, I don't like reigning over others, I'm just interested in business, too. I do want to get my MBA, and flight operations management and things like route/network capacity planning, a financial details interest me. I think doing something like that would, ideally, be a "cool" job--just not as cool as flying. And if everyone in those areas of management is evil, well, count me out.

So, it was a good point to bring up, and another bit to throw into the pot. Anyway, let the discussions roll--both about getting the jobs and this new spin! And thank you all, you're really helpful.

dojetdriver

If you want to see how some management pilots are viewed, check out this thread.

http://airlinepilotforums.com/showth...ht=chief+pilot

Granted, there is some flaming and non-essential material there, so sift through it. But a lot of it will give you a general idea of how some management pilots (specifically, the chief) can be viewed.

I'm sure that some UPS guys will chime in here as well. Seems as though those that are hired off the street as a "management pilot" tend to be looked at a little bit differently.

HSLD

I completely understand wanting to apply your MBA, but as many before me have said: "Why take a good flying job and screw it up by sitting at a desk all week?" Of course that's a broad generalization, there are some guys who move into management for right reasons, and some that do it for ego.

As I mentioned, most Chief Pilots are middle management (at best) within a large airline, so how and where you could actually apply an MBA would be up to your creativeness. If you want to fly AND you want to apply the MBA, why not pursue a flying job and then build a "plan B" business on the side?

I'm not trying to discourage you, although I think that there is a misconception about how much input management pilots have in the business process within an airline.

bryantchan1

Interesting take on it. The guy in that other thread seems to want to go into management for ALL the wrong reasons. And if going into management means losing friendships, union ties, reputations--maybe it's not worth it!

I suppose if you can become fairly senior, you might have enough time to run a business of your own?

Truth be told, I'm sort of chasing the "I would love to start an airline that is financially sustainable and where everyone gets along" dream, and one day I would love to round up all my aviation contacts from all facets and positions, and make it happen. That's why I'm interested in gaining some management experience, but not in flight ops (where those managers don't seem to be popular), and not at the expense of a complete loss of the ability to fly. Go ahead and laugh now!

Slice

I think you'd be better off working on the union side of things if you're pro-pilot. As a manager you'll have to crap on guys at times whether or not you agree with the given situation. You still get to fly and you're fellow pilots will trust you. Anytime a manager is in the other seat guys will be guarded unless they know you very well. Think of doing something at school with your friends as opposed to your principal and you'll be in the ballpark.