Virgin America
01-04-2006, 05:04 PM
#33
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Speed
Speed,
You said it yourself "pilots love to fly" and "we are not here to make a lot of money" or something to that effect. In my opinion it is that reason why the pay and working conditions have slipped and continue to do so. People are here due to the "love of flying". Therefore, they are willing to take any job at almost any level of pay and feel guilty if they expect anymore. It is a growing cult of martyrdom that is permeating the ranks. It almost seems like our profession has been overtaken by a bunch of bleeding heart artists. We all love to fly, but I feel that expectations need to remain high or else all is lost. Like I said before our skills are noting special anymore. Any farm kid with parents stupid enough to co-sign the loan can become an airline pilot in 14 months. The only thing that we have left is stubborn arrogant expectations.
SkyHigh
You said it yourself "pilots love to fly" and "we are not here to make a lot of money" or something to that effect. In my opinion it is that reason why the pay and working conditions have slipped and continue to do so. People are here due to the "love of flying". Therefore, they are willing to take any job at almost any level of pay and feel guilty if they expect anymore. It is a growing cult of martyrdom that is permeating the ranks. It almost seems like our profession has been overtaken by a bunch of bleeding heart artists. We all love to fly, but I feel that expectations need to remain high or else all is lost. Like I said before our skills are noting special anymore. Any farm kid with parents stupid enough to co-sign the loan can become an airline pilot in 14 months. The only thing that we have left is stubborn arrogant expectations.
SkyHigh
01-05-2006, 10:11 AM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Onejetpilot:
Don't know if you, saw/read the "Southern Air or Contract 767" thread, you'll be able to relate to the pilots there. What started out about different flying choices, became a "quality of life and sacrfices" for the sake of pursuing a pilot profession in their 40s.
At one point, it got pretty instense with high emotions (though made for fun reading), when a dumb kid with no experience made a couple of postings which insulted a bunch of pilots. The kid got cluster-bombed! Albiet, it took two members to appeal/mediate and calm things down on the thread and return to the topic at hand, it's a hair-trigger.
Speed and Skyhigh: You both have excellent points. We had a short TDY to Ramstein from the sandbox and while there, we saw an advertisment on the OC television for some damn Flight Academy in Florida with claims of "Pilot hirings are at an all time high and airlines will continue to face a shortages, pursue your dreams for a great career"! Maybe they know something, we don't? Humurous but "SICK" at the same time!
Don't know if you, saw/read the "Southern Air or Contract 767" thread, you'll be able to relate to the pilots there. What started out about different flying choices, became a "quality of life and sacrfices" for the sake of pursuing a pilot profession in their 40s.
At one point, it got pretty instense with high emotions (though made for fun reading), when a dumb kid with no experience made a couple of postings which insulted a bunch of pilots. The kid got cluster-bombed! Albiet, it took two members to appeal/mediate and calm things down on the thread and return to the topic at hand, it's a hair-trigger.
Speed and Skyhigh: You both have excellent points. We had a short TDY to Ramstein from the sandbox and while there, we saw an advertisment on the OC television for some damn Flight Academy in Florida with claims of "Pilot hirings are at an all time high and airlines will continue to face a shortages, pursue your dreams for a great career"! Maybe they know something, we don't? Humurous but "SICK" at the same time!
02-08-2006, 10:49 AM
#35
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 15
regulation
Whoever said earlier that regulation is bad and only allows large salaries is out of the loop. The airlines are regulated more than any other industry, but since deregulation profit and payscale have diminished. Every aspect of the industy is regulated to some extent and if they are going to regulate that I think it would be great to regulate some pay so us pilots can live a nice lifestyle. This is a job not a place for people to come to enjoy the smell of jet fuel and look at cloulds. If those people love flying so much go fly aerobatics or bush flying or instructing. I am sick of hearing "I just love to fly", I got bills to pay. I am not some socialist wanting the government to step in everywhere but if it is going to put it's nose in don't screw the working man. Another example of deregulation is the railroads, now there are no shortlines and thousands of more trucks on the road, and guess who pays for the roads. If you don't want to make good money flying planes get the hell out of the business.
02-17-2006, 09:09 AM
#36
Need More Callouts
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
Originally Posted by FlyBoys Wife
I live in CA, am a HIGH tax paying resident and frankly, I welcome Virgin America! Not only is it creating job opportunities but it's also bringing the Aviation industry to the West Coast and an attractive city, boosting our state economy AND creating even more jobs for pilots young and old (although from what I've read, the entry requirements will be high so junior guys like my husband won't be benefitting yet for some time). Virgin does things right, as has been evident by their parent company, and their fresh attitude (take a look at their corporate team on their website; young, innovative and inspiring team members as opposed to the typically corrupt CEO of Corporate America - United anyone??). I look forward to seeing their advertising campaigns, AND to being a passenger with them. If part of my tax dollar goes toward improving the state economy, as well as helping to grow a fresh faced company, I say "no problem". I'd rather my dollar goes there than into corrupt "old boys network" pockets!
I too live in California and can't wait to work at yet another Wal-Mart carrier that pays it's employees peanuts, yet hands out millions for its supposedly "competent" managers.
Please get back to monitoring the french-fry machine where you belong.
Thank you
Last edited by 757Driver; 02-17-2006 at 09:12 AM.
02-17-2006, 11:31 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: Any, usually behind the wing
Posts: 382
I just read "Why pilots should make $200,000 year".
There are a lot of truths in the article, but it sounds like pilots are forced to make the sacrifices for their profession. Are most pilots coerced into paying their dues? Were you forced into the military, or was that a price you were willing to pay to get the training and the opportunity to fly for the airlines?
Like everybody else, I get paid my money and I spend my money. The marketplace is setting the price- and that includes on the supply side. The industry is overcapacity in a lot of respects, clearly Virgin America won't help that aspect. But go ahead and have your carrier charge 50% more for a ticket and see where that gets you.
America is still a free market economy. Right now, pilots are in excess "supply" and the companies are using that to their advantage- as a stockholder I expect them to. And so would most pilots with investments.
There are a lot of truths in the article, but it sounds like pilots are forced to make the sacrifices for their profession. Are most pilots coerced into paying their dues? Were you forced into the military, or was that a price you were willing to pay to get the training and the opportunity to fly for the airlines?
Like everybody else, I get paid my money and I spend my money. The marketplace is setting the price- and that includes on the supply side. The industry is overcapacity in a lot of respects, clearly Virgin America won't help that aspect. But go ahead and have your carrier charge 50% more for a ticket and see where that gets you.
America is still a free market economy. Right now, pilots are in excess "supply" and the companies are using that to their advantage- as a stockholder I expect them to. And so would most pilots with investments.
02-21-2006, 04:34 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,995
Originally Posted by 757Driver
Great Post Einstein,
I too live in California and can't wait to work at yet another Wal-Mart carrier that pays it's employees peanuts, yet hands out millions for its supposedly "competent" managers.
Please get back to monitoring the french-fry machine where you belong.
Thank you
I too live in California and can't wait to work at yet another Wal-Mart carrier that pays it's employees peanuts, yet hands out millions for its supposedly "competent" managers.
Please get back to monitoring the french-fry machine where you belong.
Thank you
02-21-2006, 07:52 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by OldAg84
I just read "Why pilots should make $200,000 year".
The marketplace is setting the price- and that includes on the supply side. The industry is overcapacity in a lot of respects, clearly Virgin America won't help that aspect. .....
America is still a free market economy. Right now, pilots are in excess "supply" and the companies are using that to their advantage- as a stockholder I expect them to. And so would most pilots with investments.
The marketplace is setting the price- and that includes on the supply side. The industry is overcapacity in a lot of respects, clearly Virgin America won't help that aspect. .....
America is still a free market economy. Right now, pilots are in excess "supply" and the companies are using that to their advantage- as a stockholder I expect them to. And so would most pilots with investments.
It's not a free market economy OA84. Very few prosper from it other than those in power. THe manipluation is at an all time high. Just look at our goverment.
02-22-2006, 10:08 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: Any, usually behind the wing
Posts: 382
Crisp
I read these boards with great interest and some sadness. The airline industry is just the latest industry to be hosed by "management". I could tell stories, but it's an airline board. There has to been some truth that SW and JetBlue are succeeding part because the have decent labor/management relations. I just about blew my morning coffee through my nose when I read the Delta management defending their management compensation.
It's criminal (or I guess-should be); the way pensions have been effectively dissolved. Yet management walks away with a golden parachute big enough to retire on. Hiring Don Carty? Knowing what he did at AA, it's a complete turn-off for me, even if it means giving up a Virgin ride. When I fly SW, while it's still business, I get the feeling labor and management have a mutual respect for each other. I think it shows in their success.
I guess I'm tired of reading about how SW's fuel hedging is unfair and they are "damaging" the industry- when in fact they are competing very well in an ultracompetitive industry. So for JetBlue and their pilot contracts. I used to besmirch my lower end competition, now I sell for them. Why? They are agile, responsive, and offer the same thing at a more competitive price. I make more money because of those traits.
I'll close with this. I don't begrudge anyone making the most they can make- in any field- but at some level the ability to earn is market driven.
I read these boards with great interest and some sadness. The airline industry is just the latest industry to be hosed by "management". I could tell stories, but it's an airline board. There has to been some truth that SW and JetBlue are succeeding part because the have decent labor/management relations. I just about blew my morning coffee through my nose when I read the Delta management defending their management compensation.
It's criminal (or I guess-should be); the way pensions have been effectively dissolved. Yet management walks away with a golden parachute big enough to retire on. Hiring Don Carty? Knowing what he did at AA, it's a complete turn-off for me, even if it means giving up a Virgin ride. When I fly SW, while it's still business, I get the feeling labor and management have a mutual respect for each other. I think it shows in their success.
I guess I'm tired of reading about how SW's fuel hedging is unfair and they are "damaging" the industry- when in fact they are competing very well in an ultracompetitive industry. So for JetBlue and their pilot contracts. I used to besmirch my lower end competition, now I sell for them. Why? They are agile, responsive, and offer the same thing at a more competitive price. I make more money because of those traits.
I'll close with this. I don't begrudge anyone making the most they can make- in any field- but at some level the ability to earn is market driven.
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