RedeyeAV8r

Ahhh said by a neophyte in the industry.

Unlike you my young friend, I do have sympathy for them, deep sympathy.

As previously stated, the AAA group has been through many mergers (5 to be specific) prior to this merger with America West.
Allegenhy/Mowhawk went (DOH with pay protections which defined LPP's in almost all mergers since), USAir/PSA straight DOH where all PSA pilots became instant Capts, Piedmont Air mergered with Empire Airlines (This went DOH on the F-28 only with a Relative Seniority Fence) and USAIr then mergered with Piedmont with straight DOH (with a Fence on the 767 for former Piedmont Pilots), and Then finally the Trump Shuttle was merged with USAIr.

You probably have No idea but USAir East had the Best contract in the industry in the Mid 80's. They had the Best Pay, Best work rules and Best A plan.

Unfortunately stuff has happened beyond their control. They fell from Grace.

Comments like they were going out of business any day and should be happy just to have jobs Paints with a pretty broad brush stroke. If USAir east didn't offer anything to America West, why did Parker want to merge? Because they brought a lot of assets and potential with them. USiar East has a strong hold in the North East corridor NYC, BOS, PHL and DCA. They have built a decent International Network (Al beit smal to Europe) America west had nothing and very litle east coast presence. Southwest was kicking Americawest's butt with it's expansion in the east and Had USAir East failed, SWA would have taken over Philly and Charlotte in a heartbeat.

This is not a slam to the US West Pilots, nor the US East. Both Carriers needed a partner to survive in the long term. Their route systems seemed to pair well together. America West Big in the West, USair Big in the East and Europe/Carribean.

When two labor groups merge, it is always a slug fest to fight for each others own personal best interests. In this Case it seems the USAir East MEC miscalculated Mr Nicholau.

They agreed to binding arbitration and now aren't happy with the results.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Again, it all depends who you ask... I have talked to numerous friends at some 9 different airlines and all of them (including me) seem to disagree with you. None of us know the "right" answer and we have no beef in the fight. However, the majority of my friends and people I’d talked to about the “merger” think that east guys got screwed. How can you ever build a "new" airline when one side of the airline has 18 year FOs while the other side has captains with less than 9 years seniority?

It’ll be a never ending battle there, I feel sorry for both sides actually. It’s really management's fault but the pilots will pay the price: some with their paychecks, others with the continuously hostile working environment.

RedeyeAV8r

deleted.......

A320fumes

America West was/is no PSA/Piedmont, not even close. You're absolutely right, the Nicholau award is not fair and equitable and will force the east guys to burn the house down, as they should if the award goes through.


I agree. It worked well for decades, and yes, they are still around; almost bought Delta recently. Again, I state that pilots should stick to pilotage. USAirways has been victim to more inept management that any other major in existence, not the pilot's fault. They still managed to keep every scab off the property, even though everybody loves Australia and maintain a respectable living for their pilot group. They were robbed by corporate minded judges in 2 bankruptcies and seem to have given all that they will give. Hope they can keep two separate list until they're all gone, not too distant future. After the East guys have vanished, the west guys can enjoy their windfall. But until then, they keep what they brought to the table and the East should keep what they bought; wide-body, int'l flying and cohesion. Good luck at Brown! Best wishes to ALL the guys under the USAirways banner.

A320fumes

Confirmed! Not even an airline pilot. I recognized the lingo from active duty. Baseops.net.............You probably know something about that.

1Seat 1Engine

Never been on baseops.net. I guess I'm just not as chained to to the message boards as you are? Go any more assumptions about me you want to make?

And why don't you address the issues instead of trying to figure out who I am so you can make personal attacks against my background. All I can say is you've been wrong about everything about me so far so why don't you just keep guessing. It justifies my position every time you try to make the attack personal.

A320fumes

Don't want to make it personal 1 seat. This is a board where airline pilots or those interested in the airline pilot profession make post based on personal perception. My personal perception is based on the fact that you can't see that:


The East Coast guys need to realize that outside of their mutual admiration club, there's almost no one who has any sympathy for them.

We're all professional pilots, we all know the issues, we all know the history, we all know where US Air was headed on it's own.

They're not fooling anyone but themselves.

is pretty personal to all of us you included in we, and especially to the USAirways pilot group. I still think you are posing, but conceded that you could be a straight from viper-driver to major with a reserve job, post 9/11 guy who's never really had any professional strife with your company. That doesn't mean I wouldn't drink a beer with you. Not a personal attack, just an attack on your beliefs. On another note, a national seniority list is not communism.

1Seat 1Engine

Any disagreement on an issue that touches so deep can rapidly become an emotionally based argument vs a fact based argeument.

I have no real dog in this fight and have personally avoided making any comments on it because of the flammability....until now.

My entire family has been in aviation, both military and civilian for three generations. I am an airline pilot and work with a very broad spectrum of airline pilots through my military reserve job from long before Sept 11th. I've seen my friends lose their jobs and come back to the reserve snivelling for every man-day they can get just to pay the bills. Many of them are still furloughed. I have heard both sides of the story from the jumpseat and over a beer (I'll drink a beer with anyone...I might even buy).

My only comment, and I'll stand by this, is my informal poll has yet to find a non-US Air pilot that isn't dumbfounded by the acts and statements of the US Air pilots.

On the other hand, every US Air pilot that I've discussed this with has almost instantly become rabidly angry as soon as the subject comes up. Basically it makes it impossible to talk to them because they're so angry that the only people who will discuss this issue with them either already agree or are looking for a fight.

I'm not looking for a fight, just sharing my observations.

mike734

You'd even have a beer with me?

As far as your observations of USAir pilots, I have observed the same thing. They are angry. They're angry enough to burn the whole place down. THAT is why the West pilots should reconsider. The West might find nothing left after this plays itself out. ie. The West may win the battle but lose the war.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Really? Socialism maybe? Clintonism? Never mind, forgot those terms are synonymous...