Bengalsfan

According to the airlines section of this site, USAir has furloughed almost 2000 pilots. How long ago did this happen, and if this merger between USAir and America West works out, how many of those furloughs are going to accept their call backs... I'm sorta young and new to this, but if I'm not mistaken, USAir furloughed a very very very long time ago.. right?

And just for questions sake, do some of you more experienced (hate to use th word "older") guys think that Northwest, Delta, United, etc pilots will be looking at the same extremely long callback time?

cya

B757200ER

USAirways had about 1839 furoughed pilots pre-merger, and NONE will be recalled until staffing is needed. The possibility exists that there will even be some downsizing after aircraft lease returns, so you could acually find more pilots on the street. The seniority integration is apparently headed for an arbitrator because the two MECS could not agree to a method of integration.

Neutral, third-party binding arbitration is the only fair and equitable way to solve these integrations. If left up to the individual pilot group or union, they will always disadvantage the other group horribly (see TWA/AA).

Typhoonpilot

USAirways started furloughing December 2001 and continued into 2003 for a total just under 2000 pilots on furlough. The date-of-hire of the most senior pilot on furlough is roughly in the 1988/89 range. ( somebody will know the exact date, but I stopped counting and paying attention awhile ago ). What you may be thinking about in regards to furlough a long long time ago was the furlough after the first Gulf War. USAirways initialy furloughed over 600 pilots, 303 of them remained on furlough until October, 1998. That number became less and eventually about 200 accepted recall.

I know the second part because I was furloughed on July 1st, 1991 and not recalled until October, 1998 eventually returning in July, 1999 after a short leave of absence. That was a total of 7 years 3 months on furlough. About 212 of those 303 were furloughed in January, 2001 so they spent almost 8 years on furlough. I was furloughed this time on November 5th, 2002 and it's highly unlikely I would accept a recall to a merged list. I'm one of the youngest USAir pilots from that era and I'm 40 now. I just can't see taking the risk of a return to that company again, especially now that the pension is gone. There is no incentive for me. That isn't true for a some guys though. The ones flying J4J or who haven't found gainful employment will still go back.

TP

Bengalsfan

Just trying to get into the mindset, but what did guys like you do for 7-8 years before your recall? I'm amazed that so many people accepted the recall... I don't know what the mindset was back then, but I'd say the majority of my buds at Northwest have basically said f*ck the industry and have started getting other jobs or opening their own businesses. Most of those guys preach to us younger guys to stay away from the industry... to simply find another line of work.

Thanks for your replies.

cactusmike

Just to stir the sh## here, AWA negotiators walked out of merger talks with the AAA guys this week because AAA is insisting on date of hire and bringing furloughed guys back on ahead of active AWA pilots.

Both ideas are deader than an armadillo crossing I 10.

Looks like arbitration to me. We (AWA) are only asking for relative seniority, i.e. if you are 50th percentile on your present seniority list then you are 50th percentile in the merged list.

learav8r

if you are 50th percentile on your present seniority list then you are 50th percentile in the merged list.


that sounds fair to me.....

heard some guys were flying around with little red staplers in their pockets clicking them on the hotel van....kind of funny. (heard that on another board so take it for what it is worth)

good luck to you guys whatever happens!

Typhoonpilot

Most, like myself pretty much started over again from the gorund up. Many were unemployed for a year or more before finding their first job. I flew CAP Search and Rescue missions while living with my parents and collecting unemployment the first year. Then I happened on a Bandeirante job in Sacramento and a non-sched DC-9 job in Reno. Ended up working overseas for three years and then at Boeing for a year before going back.

The main reason that people went back to USAir, even from good jobs, was the pension. USAirways pension was unbeatable. We had kept acrruing longevity for the pension while on furlough. Nobody could match that pension so it was the biggest single reason to go back. At the time USAirways had just ordered 400 Airbus 320s and 30 Airbus 330s. They were hiring 100 pilots per month and had made $ 1 Billion in profit. It was really a no-brainer to go back. If we could just have had a crystal ball

TP

Typhoonpilot

It isn't a stir and I don't really get emotional about it. Date of hire with furloughed guys coming back in front of active AWA guys is not fair, I agree. What also wouldn't be fair though is that the active AWA guys gain the benefit of 3000 retirements over the next ten years while not giving anything back in return. Wouldn't you agree ?

The only fair option, in my humble opinion, is for there to be some really serious fences put up to protect both groups. I would like to see PHX fenced off from USAirways pilots in some manner for a long time. I would also like to see my career expectation of being a widebody captain for the last five years of my career at USAirways preserved. How that can happen I don't know. One possibility is for guys like me to keep date of hire for bidding widebody trans-Atlantic flying. Or perhaps to keep date of hire for bidding CLT, PIT, and PHL domiciles while AWA guys keep relative seniority for bidding any Hawaii flying and PHX and LAS bases.

Obviouolsy USAirways guys are going to want date of hire while AWA guys are going to want relative seniority. Neither works as a fair integration because of the inherent disparities between the two groups.

TP