Delta!
08-21-2007, 02:54 PM
#41
Smells like teen spirit
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Mil and Civ
Posts: 216
Well Scraps, I owe you an apology then. I read your post to say that the transition was as easy as changing channel on a treadmill. I guess I misread your post...a simple misunderstanding.
Scrapdog, your point is well taken. But I still have't found the dreaded posting or thread saying that fighter pilots have a hard time transitioning to airliners. My father was a fighter pilot that retired as an airline pilot, I know for a fact that it can be done. But please, point me to the thread or posting that says that fighter pilots would have a hard time transitioning to the airlines, and will rebuff the bologna right along side of you...no questions asked.
I guess I got a little stuck with symantics. When you say training and transition, I was not able to see the difference between the two. I won't be so quick to judge and name call if you can explain to me what the difference is between leaving the military and then flying your first line trip -and-attending training to prepare you for your first line trip. I saw it as your transition was your training, or did you take coursework outside of your airline's training program to prepare you for it ???
And maybe you weren't pounding your chest by asserting that it took you all of three flights to get the whole airline thing down-pat. I guess for most of the folks I've flown with, taught, etc...it has taken them quite a bit longer (100 hrs of consolidation, high mins captains, etc). Giving you the benfit of the doubt, you're probably a quick study.
My point is I misunderstood what you said because I read it literally and posted your quotes to backup my points. I see from your lasting posting that it was all just a simple misunderstanding on my part. Apologies for that. Best of Luck.
FF
Scrapdog, your point is well taken. But I still have't found the dreaded posting or thread saying that fighter pilots have a hard time transitioning to airliners. My father was a fighter pilot that retired as an airline pilot, I know for a fact that it can be done. But please, point me to the thread or posting that says that fighter pilots would have a hard time transitioning to the airlines, and will rebuff the bologna right along side of you...no questions asked.
I guess I got a little stuck with symantics. When you say training and transition, I was not able to see the difference between the two. I won't be so quick to judge and name call if you can explain to me what the difference is between leaving the military and then flying your first line trip -and-attending training to prepare you for your first line trip. I saw it as your transition was your training, or did you take coursework outside of your airline's training program to prepare you for it ???
And maybe you weren't pounding your chest by asserting that it took you all of three flights to get the whole airline thing down-pat. I guess for most of the folks I've flown with, taught, etc...it has taken them quite a bit longer (100 hrs of consolidation, high mins captains, etc). Giving you the benfit of the doubt, you're probably a quick study.
My point is I misunderstood what you said because I read it literally and posted your quotes to backup my points. I see from your lasting posting that it was all just a simple misunderstanding on my part. Apologies for that. Best of Luck.
FF
My first trip - well, I was nervous as hell...just like I was my first time in the T-37. Of course we're all nervous when we have something new in front of us and we want to do our best. We're type A's...we're pilots. It's amazing how simillar we are really as opposed to our differences. That's the beauty of it all.
I didn't take any coursework to prep me for being an airline pilot (aside from the prep for my interview sim/panel). I just studied hard. That was beat into my head from day one in T-37's and especially day one in F-15's. I used the same tenacity/professionalism attitude that I did when I pinned on my wings in the USAF. I stayed after my sim session was over and watched other guys. I learned besides from my notes what students did well and what they didn't. I sat down for those extra two hours after everyone went back to their room and went over my flows. Everytime a sim IP said "oh, you're a fighter guy...you'll have a tougher time with this airline transition" I wanted to shove it down their throats. Bottom line - an airplane is an airplane is an airplane.
And last but not least - apology accepted.
08-21-2007, 05:38 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B767 First Officer
Posts: 160
"You guys figure it out yet?"
"Who's the best pilot?"
"You think you're gonna find your name on that wall"
"Yes I do"
"That's pretty arrogant considering the company you're in"
"Yes it is"
"Thats good...I like that in a pilot"
...carry on...
"Who's the best pilot?"
"You think you're gonna find your name on that wall"
"Yes I do"
"That's pretty arrogant considering the company you're in"
"Yes it is"
"Thats good...I like that in a pilot"
...carry on...
08-22-2007, 08:37 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 73N CA
Posts: 474
I'm sure that he would agree that a civilian pilot transitioning to military is just as simple. He was talking about the simplicity of the transition, that's all. My .02
BTW; I have a civilian flying background.[/quote]
No. And a postage stamp isn't 12,000 feet of runway ahead boys. Let's leave the postage stamp reference to the those landing on a 400' slab of steel in the middle of the Pacific. On final, approaching at 140kts on a DARK overcast night with 15-20' pitching seas...No, I don't think the transition to Mil is as easy.
BTW; I have a civilian flying background.[/quote]
No. And a postage stamp isn't 12,000 feet of runway ahead boys. Let's leave the postage stamp reference to the those landing on a 400' slab of steel in the middle of the Pacific. On final, approaching at 140kts on a DARK overcast night with 15-20' pitching seas...No, I don't think the transition to Mil is as easy.
Last edited by Rhino Driver; 08-22-2007 at 11:25 AM.
08-22-2007, 03:51 PM
#44
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320-B
Posts: 66
Having over 300 landings on postage stamps I second Rhino Driver. And when you go somewhere, where they not only don't speak your language but they also shoot at you it takes ALOT more training than that... FF, you ever been shot at? Well all of us young military guys have... Nuff said!
08-22-2007, 03:53 PM
#45
Indian Takeout Driver
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FAR part 347 (91+121+135)
Posts: 1,566
R.I.P.
MD11/747 Classic both have high approach speeds especially when landing at max gross landing weight, asymetric flap configurations, using eng. out speed additives or Flaps 25 on the whale.
On the MD11, at max gross landing weight Flaps 35 without wind additives is 164 / Flaps 50 is 158.
At max gross takeoff, a quick return landing speed is 183 Flaps 35 and 178 for Flaps 50.
The 747 Classic landing speeds are comparable using Flaps 25 or 30.
Santa Ana, CA (757) - Beirut, Lebanon - Long Beach Ca - State College, PA--31R at JFK-
4R Honolulu, HI,- Bogota, Columbia, - Quito, Equador, - Mumbai and Calcutta, India some of my favorites.
In some countries it's quite common for controllers to speak their native tongue to all other traffic except your flight, Korea (they speak English, I just can't understand it !!!), China, India, Russia, and so on. This makes situational awareness of surrounding traffic, pireps and such more difficult.
R.I.P., as a retired Capt, congrats on your career. I'm guessing your professional question was out of curiousity not sarcasm or...........
FF
MD11/747 Classic both have high approach speeds especially when landing at max gross landing weight, asymetric flap configurations, using eng. out speed additives or Flaps 25 on the whale.
On the MD11, at max gross landing weight Flaps 35 without wind additives is 164 / Flaps 50 is 158.
At max gross takeoff, a quick return landing speed is 183 Flaps 35 and 178 for Flaps 50.
The 747 Classic landing speeds are comparable using Flaps 25 or 30.
Santa Ana, CA (757) - Beirut, Lebanon - Long Beach Ca - State College, PA--31R at JFK-
4R Honolulu, HI,- Bogota, Columbia, - Quito, Equador, - Mumbai and Calcutta, India some of my favorites.
In some countries it's quite common for controllers to speak their native tongue to all other traffic except your flight, Korea (they speak English, I just can't understand it !!!), China, India, Russia, and so on. This makes situational awareness of surrounding traffic, pireps and such more difficult.
R.I.P., as a retired Capt, congrats on your career. I'm guessing your professional question was out of curiousity not sarcasm or...........
FF
BTW.. on the topic of military.. I think it's safe to say mil pilots get better training, and are selected a bit more so than Civ pilots, but the fact is, as with the airlines, there are times when the Military is looking for pilots badly (as was the case over the past 10-12 years), and times when they weren't (1989 when I tried out and busted over a minor medical condition that was gone by the time I was 16).
Supply=Demand rules the world!
08-22-2007, 03:56 PM
#46
Indian Takeout Driver
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FAR part 347 (91+121+135)
Posts: 1,566
Having over 300 landings on postage stamps I second Rhino Driver. And when you go somewhere, where they not only don't speak your language but they also shoot at you it takes ALOT more training than that... FF, you ever been shot at? Well all of us young military guys have... Nuff said!
Some guys just didn't have the money to go straight to college and get that ROTC commission. The best of the best got the Academy route, and my hat's off to those guys!
Many roads lead to Rome!
08-22-2007, 08:36 PM
#47
Gets Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Nordskog Industries Field Technician
Posts: 688
No. And a postage stamp isn't 12,000 feet of runway ahead boys. Let's leave the postage stamp reference to the those landing on a 400' slab of steel in the middle of the Pacific. On final, approaching at 140kts on a DARK overcast night with 15-20' pitching seas...No, I don't think the transition to Mil is as easy.
Having over 300 landings on postage stamps I second Rhino Driver. And when you go somewhere, where they not only don't speak your language but they also shoot at you it takes ALOT more training than that... FF, you ever been shot at? Well all of us young military guys have... Nuff said!
Last edited by md11phlyer; 08-22-2007 at 08:52 PM.
08-23-2007, 03:47 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: A330 First Officer
Posts: 1,465
Having over 300 landings on postage stamps I second Rhino Driver. And when you go somewhere, where they not only don't speak your language but they also shoot at you it takes ALOT more training than that... FF, you ever been shot at? Well all of us young military guys have... Nuff said!
And being shot at has what to do with moving metal from point A to point B safely? So Gladioslave, how are you going to handle flying with a civilian only Captain if you get hired to Delta?
08-23-2007, 05:09 AM
#49
Indian Takeout Driver
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FAR part 347 (91+121+135)
Posts: 1,566
Guys, this military vs civil thing is one of the oldest debates, and frankly silly. I've flown with some of the best and worse pilots from both backgrounds. I can name guys (Alvin "Tex" Johnston, and Robert N. Buck for example) from civilian backgrounds that are legends, and I can name guys from military backgrounds that are the same (Chuck Yager, and Bob Hoover, for example).
Neither groups is better than the other, cool?
Neither groups is better than the other, cool?
08-23-2007, 05:29 AM
#50
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 15
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