Delta!
08-21-2007, 12:11 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: DC-10 FO
Posts: 102
Maybe not in as many words, but it's my opinion that my job is a little more challenging than changing channels between ESPN and Fox. Landing a widebody jet at speeds of 155-165 kts, on postage-stamp sized runways, at airports where they don't speak English, with the many deferred items that airlines love to give us, in low visibility weather is like changing channels on a treadmill ???
One of the most difficult landings, in my opinion, is landing aboard a ship. Imagine, if out of the blue I posted something saying, oh I did it on flight simulator, it looked easy..anyone could do it...it's as challenging playing tiddlywinks with three blind men. Puhllease, save the useless flame bait. Congrats on the airline job, but have a little more respect for us "Monkeys".
Again, I'm humbled by your service to our country, and I respect your opinion that you think being an airline pilot is as easy as changing channels to ESPN, but after being a former check airman, pilot supervisor, widebody Capt and line pilot, I respectfully disagree that the transition for almost all military folks is a 3 flight deal (it's an ongoing learning process hopefully over the course of a long and prosperous career)...unless of course your Tom Cruise-then you know it all.
Finally, where in the heck on this message board, except me defending us ESPN-loving airline pilots, do you see anyone telling you that about the "infamous airline transition" ? Did I miss it ??? If you have a beef with a dirtbag on another message board, keep your trash on that other trashy message board, rather than throwing flamebait here on a decent thread about getting hired at Delta.
I'll agree to disagree with you, but telling us civie guys how simple our training is and how easy our job almost sounds like some of the brilliant passengers I used to fly.
FF
BTW; I have a civilian flying background.
08-21-2007, 12:32 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
I've helped several guys get ready for DAL interviews successfully from both mil and civ backgrounds.
Delta, IMHO, wants someone who is A) a competent aviator and B) can represent the company well.
The clients I've had that were successful all had a common thread--good past performance and a lot of enthusiasm about being at DELTA.
I had one client from ATA not make it. I don't know why. He wanted it bad, and I thought he was sharp. Another guy I recently helped was turned down by DAL before he asked for my help with another airline. My take is they could sense it wasn't his first choice (and it wasn't) despite his best acting.
So far--the 20 or so we've worked with have had great success. I agree with some posters here, however, that despite the historical preference for military pilots regional pilots are doing VERY well at getting hired at DAL. Guys like me and Scrappy may be "cool" for being fighter pilots part time, but we are a pain in the butt to airline management with our ANG obligations. So--the young, sharp regional guy dying to work there that they know will work hard is a good fit, and they seem to be scooping them up in good numbers.
Also helped a couple regional guys get ready for UAL this week--we'll see how that goes...
Delta, IMHO, wants someone who is A) a competent aviator and B) can represent the company well.
The clients I've had that were successful all had a common thread--good past performance and a lot of enthusiasm about being at DELTA.
I had one client from ATA not make it. I don't know why. He wanted it bad, and I thought he was sharp. Another guy I recently helped was turned down by DAL before he asked for my help with another airline. My take is they could sense it wasn't his first choice (and it wasn't) despite his best acting.
So far--the 20 or so we've worked with have had great success. I agree with some posters here, however, that despite the historical preference for military pilots regional pilots are doing VERY well at getting hired at DAL. Guys like me and Scrappy may be "cool" for being fighter pilots part time, but we are a pain in the butt to airline management with our ANG obligations. So--the young, sharp regional guy dying to work there that they know will work hard is a good fit, and they seem to be scooping them up in good numbers.
Also helped a couple regional guys get ready for UAL this week--we'll see how that goes...
08-21-2007, 01:13 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: I was acquired, Not Hired
Posts: 1,784
08-21-2007, 01:25 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: I was acquired, Not Hired
Posts: 1,784
MD11/747 Classic both have high approach speeds especially when landing at max gross landing weight, asymetric flap configurations, using eng. out speed additives or Flaps 25 on the whale.
On the MD11, at max gross landing weight Flaps 35 without wind additives is 164 / Flaps 50 is 158.
At max gross takeoff, a quick return landing speed is 183 Flaps 35 and 178 for Flaps 50.
The 747 Classic landing speeds are comparable using Flaps 25 or 30.
Santa Ana, CA (757) - Beirut, Lebanon - Long Beach Ca - State College, PA--31R at JFK-
4R Honolulu, HI,- Bogota, Columbia, - Quito, Equador, - Mumbai and Calcutta, India some of my favorites.
In some countries it's quite common for controllers to speak their native tongue to all other traffic except your flight, Korea (they speak English, I just can't understand it !!!), China, India, Russia, and so on. This makes situational awareness of surrounding traffic, pireps and such more difficult.
R.I.P., as a retired Capt, congrats on your career. I'm guessing your professional question was out of curiousity not sarcasm or...........
FF
Last edited by FliFast; 08-21-2007 at 01:36 PM.
08-21-2007, 01:30 PM
#38
Gets Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Nordskog Industries Field Technician
Posts: 688
Another interesting thing to ponder on the civilian/military discussion:
23 guys in my new hire class, ages 27-43.
4 pure civilians.
Two youngest guys were halfway up the list (or more) looking at Total Time.
Both civilians.
We also had roughly 14 ex-legacy guys who had done both. Several who were not furloughed, just quit for greener pastures.
My point is that the total competitive package will determine the applicant getting hired. Civy vs. Mil really means little compared with flight times, experience, interview performance and attitude. I hope that the average hiring department feels the same way.
23 guys in my new hire class, ages 27-43.
4 pure civilians.
Two youngest guys were halfway up the list (or more) looking at Total Time.
Both civilians.
We also had roughly 14 ex-legacy guys who had done both. Several who were not furloughed, just quit for greener pastures.
My point is that the total competitive package will determine the applicant getting hired. Civy vs. Mil really means little compared with flight times, experience, interview performance and attitude. I hope that the average hiring department feels the same way.
08-21-2007, 02:10 PM
#39
Smells like teen spirit
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Mil and Civ
Posts: 216
I think that you're misinterpreting and taking this too far. The poster did not compare a civilian flying career to changing channels. He only made an analogy to the transition between military and civilian flying. He was just saying switching between military and civilian flying is not rocket science as is switching or the transition between ESPN and Fox. I don't even think that he implied that civilian training was simple. I"m sure that he would agree that a civilian pilot transitioning to military is just as simple. He was talking about the simplicity of the transition, that's all. My .02
BTW; I have a civilian flying background.
BTW; I have a civilian flying background.
It's amazing how civilian guys skew this to think I'm pounding my chest. I'm not. Read my words - not between the lines. I'm not scoffing your training - I'm only scoffing this dreaded transition.
08-21-2007, 02:30 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: I was acquired, Not Hired
Posts: 1,784
1. Getting used to using jepp's: about 30 minutes
2. Getting used to crew concept: about 3 rides in sim - approx 4 days into training
3. Getting used to radio calls nonstandard to military flying (ramp/flow control/metering, etc...): approx 2 flights
4. Getting used to reading USA Today/Newsweek > 10K MSL for 3 hours with A/P on: approx 2 flights
5. Getting used to making PA's that are concise and to the point: approx 3 flights
5. Getting used to landing a fatty @ 130 knots as opposed to a fighter @ 150-160 knots: approx 3 flights
Total: approx 5-7 days to make dreaded airline transition occur successfully
AND THEN
It's amazing how civilian guys skew this to think I'm pounding my chest..
2. Getting used to crew concept: about 3 rides in sim - approx 4 days into training
3. Getting used to radio calls nonstandard to military flying (ramp/flow control/metering, etc...): approx 2 flights
4. Getting used to reading USA Today/Newsweek > 10K MSL for 3 hours with A/P on: approx 2 flights
5. Getting used to making PA's that are concise and to the point: approx 3 flights
5. Getting used to landing a fatty @ 130 knots as opposed to a fighter @ 150-160 knots: approx 3 flights
Total: approx 5-7 days to make dreaded airline transition occur successfully
AND THEN
It's amazing how civilian guys skew this to think I'm pounding my chest..
My point is I misunderstood what you said because I read it literally and posted your quotes to backup my points. I see from your lasting posting that it was all just a simple misunderstanding on my part. Apologies for that. Best of Luck.
FF
Last edited by FliFast; 08-21-2007 at 02:45 PM.
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