acl65pilot

It has nothing to do with ability. DAL prefers military any day over civilian pilots. There are just not enough getting out currently. It 18 months that will be different.
We civilians that they have hired are familiar with the airline gig, that is the only reason we generally transition easier.

scrapdog

I will attest that this infamous "transition" that a military guy has to make flying airliners takes all of a week. Even for a fighter puke like myself once you get used to a few calls to ops and ramp/flow control, it's same-same/chicken-beef. There is complete clown on another aviation board that is a huge blowhard for DAL. His mantra is how well RJ guys transition to the major airline world and how difficult it is while military guys struggle with it. It's complete BS. It couldn't be further from the truth. Flying an airplane is flying an airplane. Going .76 Mach in a fatty with A/P on is almost as challenging as flipping between ESPN and Fox News while on the treadmill. I'll take it one step further...when I fly with a captain that has currently or has had a military background (heavies, helo's, fighters, etc...), it's amazing how well we click even before the engines crank. Bottom line: neither background is better but this impassible airline transition for mil guys is completely faux.

Xray678

I agree. When I was hired at my first airline, I was told how hard the transition was. Specifically, one civilian background captain commented on how the military didn't use jepps and how hard it must be to make the tranisition. Yeah, took me all of five minutes to figure out the jepps.

FliFast

Trust me, after almost 20 years in the airline industry, your comments show your arrogance and ignorance.

I'll take a 15,000 TT airline guy over the ocean any day vis-a-vis, a 1500TT arrogant nerd.

I am very humbled by the fact that you have served our Country, but next time, think before you tell us airline guys how wonderful you are and how incompetent we are in our backyard.

FF

Split S

I think their point is that it's not any harder for us than it is for anyone else. I don't think there was an intended air of arrogance, or any statements about anyone elses superiority or inferiority.

CVG767A

At the risk of ****ing off a bunch of you guys, here's my two cents worth. These are two general traits I've seen. While I realize that most guys don't do these things, I see them enough that I will be on guard for them.

I've seen a number of problems with guys coming from a fighter background; they are often unfamiliar with the crew concept; too quick to start flipping switches, and not in the habit of annunciating their actions, both during normal and abnormal situations. One guy I flew with shut off the engine anti-ice without mentioning it ( he thought we were out of icing conditions- we weren't). The first indication I had was the EPRs rolling back.

With prior commuter types I sometimes see an attitude that's a little too casual. This is okay sometimes, but there is a time and a place to be like that. Sometimes, good enough ISN'T good enough.

I typically see the fewest issues with military transport types. ( Disclaimer: that's my background)

HoursHore

I think Delta likes ASA guys because they have heavy exposure to the abortion called ATLANTA. Thier spirit is broken, and are well past the questioning stage.

I KEED I KEED

Luscombe Pete

Is that how you brief all of your Captains or do you adjust it based on their background? Come on FF, no one is undervaluing the experience of 15K hours in an airliner.

Scrapdog and Xray, right on. My experience at my first airline job was very similar.

LP

scrapdog

I'm sorry you feel that I'm a 1500 TT "nerd." If you re-read my post, you'll see that I never once said how wonderful I am and how incompetent you are. On the contrary, I said neither background is better than the other. And isn't this my backyard now as well? I also fly for the airlines just as you do. I may not have 15,000 TT, but that's only because I haven't done it for as long as you.

If you look at the point of my prior post it's specifically aimed at this mythical dragon called the "airline transition." It's funny, but every other fighter guy I know that also flies for the airlines (at least 2 dozen) and has done this infamously difficult transition has succeeded....and I mean in a matter of days. It's almost comical - no, it is comical, how many times I've heard or read from civilian guys about how brutal it is for a military fighter guy to make the "transition." I's a complete joke. After getting used to Jeppesen's (which takes about 30 minutes) and having a good attitude and being a good student (which is bred in each individual - military or not) I can safely say your airline "transition" is complete. Yeah, I started reach for switches I wasn't supposed to initially in training - but after the instructor taught me...just like any monkey, I learned. Here's a breakdown of my airline "transition":

1. Getting used to using jepp's: about 30 minutes
2. Getting used to crew concept: about 3 rides in sim - approx 4 days into training
3. Getting used to radio calls nonstandard to military flying (ramp/flow control/metering, etc...): approx 2 flights
4. Getting used to reading USA Today/Newsweek > 10K MSL for 3 hours with A/P on: approx 2 flights
5. Getting used to making PA's that are concise and to the point: approx 3 flights
5. Getting used to landing a fatty @ 130 knots as opposed to a fighter @ 150-160 knots: approx 3 flights

Total: approx 5-7 days to make dreaded airline transition occur successfully

Again, FliFast - please re-read my 1st post.

FliFast

and....Getting used to landing a fatty @ 130 knots as opposed to a fighter @ 150-160 knots: approx 3 flights

Never once did you say wonderful you are ????

Maybe not in as many words, but it's my opinion that my job is a little more challenging than changing channels between ESPN and Fox. Landing a widebody jet at speeds of 155-165 kts, on postage-stamp sized runways, at airports where they don't speak English, with the many deferred items that airlines love to give us, in low visibility weather is like changing channels on a treadmill ???

One of the most difficult landings, in my opinion, is landing aboard a ship. Imagine, if out of the blue I posted something saying, oh I did it on flight simulator, it looked easy..anyone could do it...it's as challenging playing tiddlywinks with three blind men. Puhllease, save the useless flame bait. Congrats on the airline job, but have a little more respect for us "Monkeys".

Again, I'm humbled by your service to our country, and I respect your opinion that you think being an airline pilot is as easy as changing channels to ESPN, but after being a former check airman, pilot supervisor, widebody Capt and line pilot, I respectfully disagree that the transition for almost all military folks is a 3 flight deal (it's an ongoing learning process hopefully over the course of a long and prosperous career)...unless of course your Tom Cruise-then you know it all.

Finally, where in the heck on this message board, except me defending us ESPN-loving airline pilots, do you see anyone telling you that about the "infamous airline transition" ? Did I miss it ??? If you have a beef with a dirtbag on another message board, keep your trash on that other trashy message board, rather than throwing flamebait here on a decent thread about getting hired at Delta.

I'll agree to disagree with you, but telling us civie guys how simple our training is and how easy our job almost sounds like some of the brilliant passengers I used to fly.

FF