Originally Posted by tallpilot

Let's hope everyone is on board with full pay to the last day. I am.

Originally Posted by NorthOf49

Thanks for the support. Glad to hear that you were able to make your way down south.

The last time that our pilot group went through full negotiations was in 2014... and they locked in 2% annual raises for 10 years on pathetic wages, and atrocious working conditions that do not align with management's goal to be a "top ten global airline"... try "bottom ten".

It's unclear what would happen if we voted this down. Lots of other labour groups in Canada, both in aviation and other industries, have gotten better after voting NO to the first deal... there are also great examples of that down south. But sadly, our union won't even entertain that possibility... they insist that we will be forced into Final Offer Selection arbitration (where each side presents a full contract, and the arbitrator picks one without compromise). It's happened once to us in the past, but the odds of it happening again are highly unlikely in today's political climate...

Originally Posted by PipeMan

I hope they get what they deserve to. But let’s be real, our beautiful contracts are one hiccup away from being gutted.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

Not sure if you can be forced to continue work like here but what's the worst if you say no? More negotiations, a strike, current status quo? I really don't know but all of that is endurable. If you aren't getting the equivalent you are only hurting us all. A wide body captain should make no less than C$ 635/hr. A narrow body captain is C$ 515/hr.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/money...erter/usd-cad/

Originally Posted by Noisecanceller

What’s this about taxes and landing fees? You pay these personally? I’m confused.

Originally Posted by NorthOf49

Things are really going off the rails north of the 49th parallel...

All of the union's rhetoric about a "World Class Contract" and "ending the discount on Canadian labour" has been replaced with "we got you a better contract"... "we won't do any better if you vote NO"... and "we'll get 'em next time"...

Well, you're all probably dying to know what is proposed in the new Tentative Agreement, so here are the coles notes:

• Pay
  • Well we've certainly "closed the gap"... but depending on your seniority and position, the size of that gap can really vary. The following numbers are all in CAD, and comparisons assume 1CAD=1USD.
    • Yr 1 pay is $87/hr... or $79k/yr (up from $59k)
    • Yr 2 pay is $95/hr... or $85k/yr (up from $64k)
    • Pay for Yrs 3-4 has increased from the previous "flat amounts" of $73k and $82k respectively, to anywhere from $116/hr on a NB up to $154/hr on a WB.
    • Yr 12 WB FOs are 10-19% behind their US conterparts depending on fleet.
    • NB Captains are around 20% behind at all years and fleets.
    • WB Captains are between 5-15% behind depending on fleet.
    • In terms of Percent of Captain Pay, we range from 42% on Yr3 NB to 37% Yr3 WB, up to 65% at Yr 12. Contrast that with AA/DL/UA FOs who range from 53.5% in Yr 2 to 68.3% in Yr 12.
  • Ironically, the union is touting that we got a 26% average pay raise immediately, with 4%/yr for the remaining 3 years of the contract... however, the TA also includes changes to our profit sharing program, which previously paid out up to 8% of a pilot's income fairly consistently during non-COVID years... the proposed changes will move the goal posts for profit sharing so far down the field that they are practically unattainable... and voila, the company has effectively funded our raises through the elimination of our profit sharing!
  • Overtime premium: increasing from 50% to 100%... but nowhere close to the $$$ that you guys can make.
• Scheduling: our current contract has 0.0hr in terms of an Average Daily Guarantee (the only saving grace on an inefficient trip with a long layover is our pitiful trip rig of 1:4)... well the company is "graciously" offering ADG of 4.5hr... in 2027
  • Trip Trade / Open Time Swap: FLICA is out of the question... the company says that they will use a Jepp system... and they'll "try" to implement it by the summer of 2026
• Vacation: a VAC day is currently worth 2.9 hr... the company is offering 3.25 hr in 2026 and 3.75 in 2027.
• Reserve: still no option for Long Call... merely 2 hr Short Call...
• Training: recurrent training is still not included in our monthly blocks/lines
• Commuting: We finally got a commuting policy!!! Apparently the company fought tooth and nail against it, despite it having zero cost to them... and in the end they have offered what is the bare minimum across North America (a two flight buffer and if you don't make it to work, your trip is dropped without pay). You'll probably all be amazed to learn that even our FAs have had this policy for many years now. Oh, and we still have to pay taxes and airport fees when we fly domestically, which usually amounts to around $130 per round trip.
• And overall, the new contract is still full of language that benefits the company and allows them to bend us over whenever they want, in order to protect the operation.

Now, what was the pilot group's reaction when this TA was brought to us a mind-boggling 3 days before the strike deadline? Initially, it was outrage. People couldn't comprehend why the TA missed the mark on so many items. The general consensus was that the proposed pay increases at Yrs 5-12 would be "tolerable" if they came with significant quality of life improvements, but alas, this TA is devoid of any such changes. NB pilots will still be doing highly inefficient 3 day trips, involving two legs and a 36hr layover, for a whopping 8:50 credit, until 2027 when that trip will be worth 13:30. Junior WB pilots could still be working 18-20 days per month, or even more in a month when they have recurrent training. Got a month of vacation? Great! Still plan on working 15-16 days (i.e. close to a normal month), until 2027 when those VAC days are finally worth a bit more... A commuter on reserve? Have fun sitting short call in a crashpad for 18 days per month with very poor language governing the flying you're awarded or when you can be released by screwsked.

For the first week or so after this TA was announced, it seemed like the pilot group was preparing their torches and pitchforks... but then the roadshows started, and despite promising to never put on a selljob, that is just what the union has done. The MEC and Negotiating Committee have repeatedly admitted that they missed the mark on a lot of items and that "this isn't the best deal", but rather, that this is "the best that we will get". They claim that we had "peak leverage" 3 days prior to the strike deadline, and threaten that if we vote this down, we will lose the support of the public, and and the government will impose the harshest form of binding arbitration under Canadian labour law, despite the fact that the federal government, along with the two main opposition parties, had all expressed support of the pilots and pledged not to intervene in negotiations. And to top it all off, our MEC Chair and Vice Chair have both publicly stated that they will resign if this TA is voted down, leaving us onboard a rudderless ship!!! The selljob and scare tactics are working, and now it seems that a lot of pilots (especially the senior guys) who were initially NO votes, have succumbed to their fear and are voting YES, not because they think this is a good deal, but because they are scared of what will happen if we vote this down.

This was supposed to be our chance. Our once in a generation opportunity to right the ship and really achieve some meaningful gains for the profession in Canada... but we flinched and squandered whatever leverage we had. Sadly what we are being offered is not even close to world class... we're still way behind you guys when it comes to pay and lifestyle... and in fact, our proposed "improvements" to QOL don't even rival what is offered at other domestic carriers in Canada.

Rant over. I guess there's a reason that you guys call us the "Pirates of the Atlantic..."