Turbosina

This.

I have an MBA from an Ivy League equivalent university in the United Kingdom, and I can't say that degree has done anything special for me. At this level it's all about networking. If you weren't already working at an airline, I'd say ok, perhaps you need an advanced degree just to get past the bots reviewing resumes, but at this point I think your time would be better spent differentiating yourself in more practical ways. Just my $.02...

flensr

An MBA and PMP certification matches up fairly well with a flying job as a backup or secondary career option if you decide to quit flying the line for whatever reason. Every airline pilot is already a process manager and small team leader, so the MBA and PMP certification can be matched with that to make an attractive application package at any number of fortune 500 companies that need people who will show up to work on time, knows how to follow/manage a process that does stuff, has experience working with and leading a small team, and has the certificates to give the basis for moving up from process management into project management after getting a little experience in the new company.

This is the "easy" pathway to making solid 6 figures without needing to be a coding wizard or any other type of technical genius. It's great for mature professionals and it's absolutely transferrable to any industry. If you've ever flown more than one aircraft type with more than one company, you've also proven that you can learn new things and don't need to be concerned with jumping into an unfamiliar industry, because the details of the job really don't matter. The ability to learn new stuff, show up to work on time, and work with people to do a thing are the skills you need and which we have. An MBA and PMP are tools to make the next step after getting your foot in the door, no matter what the industry or company does. These skills transfer anywhere and they lead quickly to solid 6 figure salaries plus perks.

As others have said, networking is important. That's how your resume gets pulled from the pile and actually looked at for an interview opportunity. But every one of us already has the skills to jump right in as a process manager and team leader, so advanced degrees and certificates simply show the readiness to move up once you get some experience at the new company. Too many pilots think they have no options outside the aviation industry and that's simply not true in any real measure. Few of us have been taught the process (it's an explicit part of military separation/retirement transition assistance nowadays) but once you see how broadly our experience can apply, it's almost magical how many career doors can be opened that have nothing to do with aviation.

goingbald

I did an evening mba program while flying full time for a regional. It took some scheduling trickery, but it was manageable. Everyone’s experience and opinion of the value of an mba is going to be different. For me, I left flying after suffering through the lost decade. Having the degree deepened my network, and prepared me for the transition to a non flying job. It also accelerated my growth in that job, and I passed up others for a variety of reasons, but having the mba experience was one of them. Fast forward 12 years and I’m retired from that world (I’m just under 50 now), and decided to go flying again for fun, and a stress free paycheck.

my ROI was huge, but I left the industry. With today’s market and pay scales, you can make more by staying in the flight deck and gaining seniority. Anyone griping about pay should walk in the corporate world for a bit and see how hard and stressful it is to make the kind of money we make now. The only variable missing in aviation is equity, which is where real wealth is made.

NuGuy

When this industry is on the upswing, it's definately golden handcuffs.

The problem is the ROI from career changing diminshes rapidly after 35, and by 40 vanishes entirely unless you fall into a very good deal by luck, network, relation, marriage or some combination. It's not just the cost of school, but time off and then the 3-4 years of career spoolup afterwards during what should be a ramp up of your career earnings.

Success stories are great, but people shouldn't get unwarranted expectations. Just because one person did it, and yes, there are always outliers, doesn't mean you have the same set of circumstances they do. I watched people during the lost decade jump ship because "hey, Bob went and did ABC! He's a schmo, so if he can do it, so can I". But it turns out Bob had a wife that paid his way through school, was a Doctor so there was no issue with living expenses, and her father ran BigCo Financial Services, so he slid right into an executive spot. Those small details rarely make it out to the forum posts.

at6d

I feel that his success story is flying for the airlines.

flensr

With all respect, this is nonsense. The reason why it's nonsense is that many of us have no say in when we leave the flying business and it may be after your age 35-40 timeframe but decades before mandatory airline retirement at 65. If you're shown the door for whatever reason (lost medical, bad judgement that makes you unhirable, whatever), that's the wrong time to start working on obtaining pre-requisite credentials to start your next career. It's like buying life insurance - if you wait until you need it to buy it, it's too late.

ROI is a moving target, and I'd argue that an advanced degree actually has a higher ROI for an older person changing careers because you have to set yourself apart from a younger person who may have a more recent education but lacks experience. In that case, an advanced degree plus your experience could put you ahead of a younger inexperienced hiring candidate. If you lose your $300k+ airline job, an entry level mgt job at $80k with a growth path towards $200k or more is an AWESOME backup plan compared to what most pilots have, which is pretty much nothing but unemployment while they scramble to luck into something paying over minimum wage. We have time on our hands, especially young pilots or new hires who very often have quite a bit of dead time on their hands sitting reserve or on overnights. Sign up for an online class or two and get some certificates just in case you find yourself on the street looking for ANYTHING.

Military retirees know this very well. I retired from the USAF around age 44, and when I did because I'd gotten an advanced degree I could have easily jumped into a job at any fortune 500 company starting somewhere between $80k and $150k without using my flying experience in any way. Getting a PMP certification could have bumped me up at least one level on the payscale and put me on a solid management track. My resume would have sold me to the hiring folks as a team leader and project manager. Thing is, any one of us can do that if you have any sort of degree or certificate that shows you're willing and able to learn something new. Yes, flying a desk in my opinion sucks. But if you're on the street without a medical thinking about signing up for uber so you can make rent for one more month, your age doesn't matter.

Networking helps, but you still have to prepare yourself and set yourself apart from everyone else applying. That's true no matter your age, and it could be even more important if you need to start another career and don't want to start at the very bottom. There's your ROI right there, jumping the career ladder by 10 years on the basis of experience and a proven willingness to keep learning as evidenced by the advanced degree you picked up when you didn't really need to at that moment in time.

ThumbsUp

This is a little apples to oranges. The advanced degree for a typical O-6+ is a pretty small component on getting a job at any defense industry company. And if you are getting anywhere near 150k, you have way undersold yourself. The attraction to flying at an airline is that it is easy money—you can make more money elsewhere.

flensr

I wasn't an O-6. I was an O-4 who wasn't sure I'd get to fly again after a back surgery. Absolutely not on the "executive" track at that point LOL. My point is that literally anyone with commercial flying experience could match that with an advanced degree earned in their spare time sitting reserve or at their hotel overnights, and have a very attractive resume if they ever needed a second non-flying career. It's cheap insurance, and it was huge peace of mind for me when I wasn't sure what I was going to be doing for my own second (or third) career.

CRJCapitan

Has anyone been junior in status and had to manage synchronous courses? I'd imagine even if short call you could get around this with morning RAPs and do classes at night but curious if anyone can attest to whether that works out well or not.

Mainline Mulier

I think you guys really over estimate how valuable an unapplied masters degree is in the 'outside world'. Obviously JD and MD etc are different, but a run of the mill masters degree means almost nothing anymore.

My ex hired for director and C suite level positions at some of the largest banks in the world including Goldman Sachs. The list of qualifications went like this:

1. Exceptional experience level (launch a 1bn+ business, make partner at BCG, climb mt everest etc..)
2. Who reccommended you
3. Prior experience
4. Education

If you didn't have substantial experience you wern't getting an interview, period. Most business educations are about establishing a network, so they really couldn't care where you did that at. MBA's are for people who have no network from undergrad and want to tap into a better B-school phone book. An online MBA is a useless piece of paper, because you arent networking with anyone in that format.