PilotJ3

The 767 doesn’t pay 321 Rates. The 321NEO, pays 757/767 rates, which is the right thing to do, specially when it’s doing transcons and Caribbean flying that used to be done by the 757.

We have rates for 319/320, 321 and 321Neo. Next year, Rsv will pay 321neo rates, except the legs that are flown in a 319/320/321.

Whoopsmybad

Looking at the July awards for NYC ER FO, it’s more like the bottom 20% can’t hold some sort of International. Winter months are different. And some LAX and NYC guys end up doing ATL stuff, and yes the 757 out of ATL does lots of FL, but also lots of not FL.

170Till5

2 year seat locks for captains upgrading and plane movements. People got displaced during Covid as well and took an upgrade into the 737/320. The ER has more destinations in Europe than the 330 or 350 for the summer flying. We also go to HNL and Africa, and S. America. Easy transcons too. Has the most variety in the system. But people don’t want to commute to NYC, so that’s why it’s junior. And it’s a shrinking fleet. But yes, also the Florida shuttle if you go through ATL which you can easily avoid, even being junior. And if you’re based in ATL, you do RJ flying on the 757 💀

the 330 is mostly AMS LHR and CDG, same trips and not nearly as much variety as the ER out of NYC.

Gone Flying

we got our 321NEOs to pay 763 pay. That is a good thing.

as others have said summertime in NYC Most FOs can hold Europe. It’s like 60-70% of the bid package block hours. CA side is more senior because there is 1/2 the CAs going to EU as FOs but in the summer CAs in the bottom 20% can still get Europe via pickups and swaps.

NYC7ER is extremely good flying in an otherwise undesirable base. Last summer there were over 20 different destinations in Europe. in the winter you see less Europe but trade it for Hawaii, Caribbean, and South America. LA gets HND via HNL as well as PPT. I know some PPT has made its way to NYs bid packages via LAX.

IMO the ATL “meat grinder” has been significantly nerfed by the EDP pay rig we have that went into effect last September (1:1 pay for all duty over 10 hours on unaugmented operations on top of any block pay)

plenty of warts at DL, but NYC ER flying (currently) isn’t really one of them.

WiFly

These two categories are comparable:

AA's 777 / 787 vs. DL's 765 / 330 / 350

DL will mostly eliminating the 7ER category over the next 5 years, following in AA's footsteps (eliminated the 757/767 fleet did during Covid).

As any pilot will tell you, quality of life tends to suffer as a fleet dies.

AA will be taking A321 XLR deliveries, and those aircraft will begin to fill the 757 void. Those aircraft (and AA's A321neos) pay the same as DL's 7ER.

Thus it makes far more sense to compare AA's A321 fleet to DL's 7ER fleet given expected utilization for the remainder of the decade. Only difference is DL 7ER will be shrinking and AA 321 will be growing.

nene

I love the surety of the demise of DELTA's ER category by non air line pilots..... Lots of "stuff" can happen in 5yrs, but if demand stays at record levels, and gas stays reasonable, and Delta maintains the rights/capability to renew the PW engines, then the 7er fleet could have a longer lifespan than the Airbus rah-rahers believe.

WiFly

You very well may be right. But one thing is guaranteed - Delta will not be growing 7ER. There will be no more 757/767 deliveries.

The A321 fleet will continue to grow, both at DL and AA.

Whoopsmybad

Then you must take into account the 321 NEO growth at DAL too for your comparison, as it grows too. We have more than 100 on order still.

FangsF15

All that's true. Certainly lots of stuff can happen in 5 years. And also, the company has made prognostications before about how long aircraft will stay, or what upgrades are coming (looking at you, MD-88), only to see things change.

It has nothing to do with Airbus fanbois. The fact remains, the company is repeatedly putting out comms that the 763 is going away by about 2030. They are retiring (I think) 6 this year. It's not like people are making it up.

Sliceback

"Quality of life suffers as a fleet goes away."

The QOL of the replacement fleet increases.

Guys ***** because they don't want to go to training, don't want to be exposed in training, or think they're old ride is awesome and the replacement sucks. If that was the gold standard we'd be flying 707's.