cornbeef007

I was furloughed..and it took me 14 years to make it to mainline.

You’ve had 15 years to recover from 65…did you do anything for those that came before you to make them whole? No, because they weren’t you.

They were the ones that truly got hammered. In a way 67 would have been more salt in the wound.

I wasn’t name calling. I was giving you an a description of behaviors, in my opinion. Did I take 50% of your pay? Did I furlough you? Then why does everyone behind you need to take a hit for it? I don’t know a better word other than selfish to describe that mindset.

Do I resent those that got hired at mainline aged 24 when my day came at 35? Not one bit, I’m happy for them. This career is like rolling dice in Vegas.

Like I said, I appreciate the honesty. You’re not trying to hide behind some BS excuse in the pursuit of 67. There is certainly something to be said for that.

cornbeef007

I’m not so sure…there is a very different dynamic between now and the end of the decade.

Until the last few years, the airline basically extorted pilots at the regional level. Pay was abysmal because pilots were a dime a dozen. They could pay us crap and we would still line up to build time.

You can actually have a pretty good career at the regionals and the stagnation until recently was non existent.

The moral: people are actually trying to become pilots now. We are minting pilots much faster than the 2005-2013 time frame.

RJSAviator76

What BS excuse would I be hiding behind? You nailed it when you said this was a money-grab, though I would more appropriately label it as a struggle between the two separate camps attempting a money-grab.

[Devil's Advocate] You could make an argument that your willingness to fly a jet for what you did contributed to a major decline of this profession. You could also make an argument that it was the senior pilots at mainline who sold out the junior ones to preserve what they had. Both could be and are probably true. Lessons learned.... you looked after your career - you were building your turbine PIC time to be competitive to apply at mainline, and you didn't give two feces whom you screwed over directly or indirectly... as long as you got yours. Now take that to the top level at the mainline... again, they didn't give two feces about whom they screwed over and how, for as long as they got theirs. Neither they, nor you cared about anyone else, but both of you looked after number 1. That's the par for the course. That's to be expected. Now fast forward, and still playing a devil's advocate... I literally benefit ZERO from being benevolent to your career progression. Put bluntly, I don't care if you get furloughed, stagnate in the right seat until kingdom come, or miss out on career movement that benefits you at my expense. Why should I? Do you not look out for number 1 in your world?

Still playing devil's advocate... let me put it another way. You finally made it to mainline. You made captain in record short time. You're fighting for your interests and are masking your own ambitions by wrapping them into an altruistic "fight" against those who stand in the way of your own career progression. And guess what? Good for you. Fight for your career. Fight for your interests, but don't blow sunshine up anyone's butt in that somehow your cause is righteous because it's not. It's no less self-serving than of that senior guy. You're simply envious of their position and you want it for yourself as soon as you can possibly get.

That's how the system is designed. I didn't design it, but I play in it just as you do and I literally get nothing out of looking out for your career interests just as you get nothing out of looking out for mine. Our interests may intersect at some point and we can collaborate on our mutual interests, but this clearly isn't a mutual interest. [/Devil's Advocate]

I do recognize I would benefit from the increased retirement age and I'm fine with that. However, my financial planning is looking to retire much earlier than any mandatory retirement age. I'm not taking sides in this. So I'm not wasting my time or energy writing to my Congressman and Senators either for or against it. I simply don't care, but I'm sick of the hypocrisy on both sides and in our society in general. Why is it so hard to call spade a spade?

RJSAviator76

Everyone is altruistic and a "mentor" until it hits them in the pocket. Then it's excuse central... some tug at emotional aspects, others were wronged early on and they're trying to right a perceived wrong, yet others spout "scientific" reasons, others hide behind "mentoring the new generation" yet will fight tooth and nail against "SIC-only after 65." It's hypocrisy at its finest and all bunch of BS. Want a fair system? Eliminate mandatory retirement age altogether and implement tougher medicals to include cognitive testing. Pick an arbitrary LTD end date should you go out on medical. That's FAIR. The rest is a flair of bullsh!t pushing their preferred choice of outcome.

And no, life isn't fair and yes, get over it. The sooner you do, the better off you'll be. Something else... you're also assuming that people purposefully want to damage others' careers because they had it rough. It's way simpler than that... most couldn't care less one way or another until it affects them. Do you care about me? Do you care about my family? Do you care about my needs or my family's? Do you care about our financial well-being to the point that you would sacrifice your and your family's financial well-being for the benefit of mine? We know the answer to that. It's really that simple.

CBreezy

I care about the profession, in general. And I care that no one gets affected adversely for the benefit of anyone else. Age 67 is just a money grab out the door for the most senior pilots on the list and they are using every excuse in the book to convince people it is in everyone's best interest. It isn't.

And you're right. Life isn't fair. It's not fair they got their retirement taken but that's not my problem. Life isn't fair. But changing the retirement age is trying to disadvantage the vast majority of pilots for the betterment of a small minority.

joepilot50

While I ended up deleting my reply cause I am trying to stay out of this.....

But I will give you the answer..... How about taking the reduced 50 hour guarantee during COVID at my regional? I am not seeking credit or seeking praise and you're right in the sense that if going down to 50 hours causes too much strain on me I would probably would not have done it. But I absolutely believed in doing what I could to help those below me.

There is a limit, but I am all for reasonable measures like the agreements that came about during COVID to prevent a furlough( with the exception of AA.....).

Speaking of AA, one of the union guys was all about, " I was furloughed so I won't do anything to help you" mentality. They do exist and like I said, miserable people.

And my whole life isn't fair thing is they who speak it don't practice it. Here they are stating, " life isn't fair, get over it" then turn around and whine and moan how they deserve Age 67 because they had it rough while the people hired now have the potential to have a better ride. As you're deriding hypocrital statements, you don't get anymore hypocritcal than that.

RJSAviator76

Yep. And what you're suggesting is a money grab for your camp.

So you're a Republican when it comes to your career, aren't ya?

RJSAviator76

Do you not fight for what benefits you and yours?

WHACKMASTER

You guys are on GUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAARD….

Sliceback

Even the guys hired today, with the large block of recent hires ahead of them, are projected to have much better careers than the careers of a bunch of the 1980 and 1990 hires. Pay rate back then? Adjusts to $117/hr today. So his 12th year FO pay is less than 2nd year pay today. That's before soul crushing stagnation.

Actually guys hired today might have better careers than guys hired 30 years ago. Thirty years ago was 1994. The big winners back then were the 1984-1987/88/89 hires. 1992 new hire will have about 3-5 yrs as a w/b Captain at AA.