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Old 05-15-2022, 03:59 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by dualinput
It certainly can take away their seniority if they were supposed to retire. Anything after 65 is a gift
Originally Posted by Gone Flying
they absolutely can not do that. Yes it is a gift, but age discrimination is illegal, just because they got a windfall does not mean you can discriminate against them.

if they were to be forced back to the right seat, it would have to be as a result of the law…like changing the law to prohibit CAs over 65 but allow FOs(not happening) or require thorough cog testing for a first class medical over 60 but not a second class.
Yeah you could do it but you'd get sued and almost certainly lose.

Just like a CBA could not ban women or minorities from upgrade.
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Old 05-15-2022, 09:31 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by VargaDriver
Depending on the push to make this law, I wonder if it’s possible Congress may skip or fast track analysis, debates and the NPRM due to data available from foreign countries (ie. Japan age 67).
Congress can do whatever they want. They could call an emergency session at 0200 tonight and vote to pass the law, and Joe could sign it after breakfast.

That's not typically how they do business though, so I'm sure there would be the usual staff and committee process for something like this. The one time I'm aware of that a vote was taken and passed within hours was when they declared war on Japan on Dec 8th.

Also foriegn countries might have relevant medical data but there are labor, business, and political issues to consider too. It's a tough issue because businesses want it, so that makes it bad. But some union workers also want it, which makes it good. And some other other union workers (and the victim's families) don't want it, which makes it all very confusing.

Hard to say but my SWAG is that this will have to get chewed on for a couple years, and it will depend on how bad the air travel situation gets... bad enough and the pols will want to do something just for the sake of appearing to be doing something.
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Old 05-15-2022, 10:40 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
Congress can do whatever they want. They could call an emergency session at 0200 tonight and vote to pass the law, and Joe could sign it after breakfast.

That's not typically how they do business though, so I'm sure there would be the usual staff and committee process for something like this. The one time I'm aware of that a vote was taken and passed within hours was when they declared war on Japan on Dec 8th.

Also foriegn countries might have relevant medical data but there are labor, business, and political issues to consider too. It's a tough issue because businesses want it, so that makes it bad. But some union workers also want it, which makes it good. And some other other union workers (and the victim's families) don't want it, which makes it all very confusing.

Hard to say but my SWAG is that this will have to get chewed on for a couple years, and it will depend on how bad the air travel situation gets... bad enough and the pols will want to something just for the sake of appearing to doing something.
Netjets has plenty of data on pilots flying into their 80's. If I remember right they sucked Harvey Watt dry when they would go out on LTD. I think the number one claimed disability was mental illness. True story.
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Old 05-16-2022, 01:31 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Moonbeam
Netjets has plenty of data on pilots flying into their 80's. If I remember right they sucked Harvey Watt dry when they would go out on LTD. I think the number one claimed disability was mental illness. True story.
Cognitive issues, not mental illness.
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Old 05-16-2022, 06:19 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Moonbeam
Netjets has plenty of data on pilots flying into their 80's. If I remember right they sucked Harvey Watt dry when they would go out on LTD. I think the number one claimed disability was mental illness. True story.
This is about age 67. So you throw out age 80 data. Good one.
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Old 05-16-2022, 06:42 AM
  #156  
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If they keep kicking the can down the road, the FAA flight physical might actually have to become, you know, a physical.

My guess is, if that happened, they’d lose 20% of current staffing—guys who are currently pencil whipped into the air would be LTDing in droves.
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Old 05-16-2022, 06:58 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by antbar01
If they keep kicking the can down the road, the FAA flight physical might actually have to become, you know, a physical.

My guess is, if that happened, they’d lose 20% of current staffing—guys who are currently pencil whipped into the air would be LTDing in droves.
Good point.
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Old 05-16-2022, 07:10 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by antbar01
If they keep kicking the can down the road, the FAA flight physical might actually have to become, you know, a physical.

My guess is, if that happened, they’d lose 20% of current staffing—guys who are currently pencil whipped into the air would be LTDing in droves.
True statement and I'm sure the airlines are watching carefully... they should balk pretty hard at any additional screening which would affect those under 65, that would likely be counter-productive to staffing.

However... we've had age 65 for 15 years now and I don't recall any geezer-induced accidents in the US, so maybe they can retain status quo up to age 65.
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Old 05-16-2022, 07:29 AM
  #159  
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Awful lot of prognosticating, hand wringing and teeth gnashing on this thread but there's a big difference between this and last time. Last time ICAO had already raised it and the US was moving into compliance. This time we are ahead of ICAO and that's gonna a create a lot of issues. I say that makes it less likely. I say Mr. Rogers (Lindsey) is just attention seeking as usual. Even airline managements won't get behind this because keeping fat cats at the top of the seniority list longer is counterproductive and will scare even more entrants out of this industry.
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Old 05-16-2022, 08:10 AM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by antbar01
If they keep kicking the can down the road, the FAA flight physical might actually have to become, you know, a physical.

My guess is, if that happened, they’d lose 20% of current staffing—guys who are currently pencil whipped into the air would be LTDing in droves.
Enhanced physicals/1500 hours ATP Rule/Physical Fitness test similar to the military/Age 65 vs 67 and my suggestion on another thread police style body cameras to catch performance degradation. Can anyone argue that if you sit on the flight deck of an airliner you don't carry every bit the same responsibility to the public as a law enforcement officer while making a whole lot more money? EVERYONE is about safety and the traveling public until it adversely affects them or their bottom line.
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