full of luv

Because Air Italy was Qatar Airways first and major attempt to poach high value pax from the much more lucrative Europe (Italy) to US market and if successful would have given them an EU foothold into eventual expansion of that scheme.

captjns

Similar to the JV with DAL and VA... along with other carriers which they outsource cheaper labor and operating costs in the name of code share?

Big E 757

Qatar’s investment in Air Italy was their attempt at getting around cabotage laws. Delta’s investment in VA was to get access to LHR slots for U.S to LHR flights (not cabotage). Also, Delta doesn’t receive 20+Billion in subsidies from the U.S government every year, like Qatar does, so I’d say it’s almost exactly the opposite type of situation.

serce

In 2005 Delta received billions of debt forgiveness in the form of bankruptcy. This might not be called a subsidy but it's free money from the taxpayers one way on another.

Andy

Really? Please explain; I'd like to hear how you came up with the taxpayers being on the hook for that debt forgiveness.

TFAYD

One way or another It flows to the tax payer when you socialize losses.

Somebody didn’t get their money back in a bankruptcy. That somebody now has a huge loss to write off against profits reducing thei tax burden.

And while we are at it - UA hasn’t paid any taxes in years. Lots of losses carried forward.

full of luv

A BK flows to the bond holders and in a way all future bond holders of airline bonds due to the fact that the same fate could happen to them. The taxpayers didn't loan money to UAL or Delta so they had no losses. Coke, Disney, and Pratt and Whitney were the biggest Delta losses when they went through BK court, so I guess Delta is one of the reasons it costs $150 to enter Disney World.

As far as the tax losses, that's the way YOUR reps set up the tax code. To complain when companies use teams of accountants to avoid taxes seems a little disingenuous at best to complain about the companies.
BTW, the I/O bank uses YOUR tax money to subsidize selling Boeing products at a discounted finance rate to airlines all over the world (except the USA), seems strange doesn't it?

full of luv

Complete misunderstanding of BK court, to say the least.

Dstblj52

No its the lost equity from those who owned delta stock pre bankruptcy they lost nearly everything with stock issued to those who held delta debt instead

full of luv

At a much "discounted" rate.....that's why US Air was almost able to buy Delta in BK as they were offering like $0.60 / dollar which was much more than Delta mgmt was offering current debt holders. Fortuitously, Delta mgmt was able to convince the debtors committee (who has an input to the judge) that taking less $$ upfront would still be to their long term benefit.

Your correct, equity holders wiped out (it's a BK) and debt holders take a loss with some new stock in reorganized company and cash from new investors who become the new primary. Alternatively the stake holders could reject any reorg offer and take their chances on an asset sell off, but often the loss of future business coupled with the potential reorg out weigh the current pennies on a dollar you'd get on an asset sell off.

BTW, the "taxpayers" are not involved in this process. That is capitalism vs socialism. In socialism the taxpayers would own all the company and if it were allowed to go BK, they'd take the wrap. Since it's never anyone's personal money involved that's often why the businesses in socialistic economies do so poorly. No one has to worry about losses and eventual collapse as it's owned collectively by the state.