End of 2019 salary survey
02-08-2020, 12:56 PM
#621
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,141
End of 2019 salary survey
So ~ $70,000 annually for someone retiring 2020 at 65? Nice.
Now they only have to replace $60,000.
Did they fix this part?
“The lawsuit stems from Delta’s 2005 bankruptcy filing and subsequent transfer of pension liability to the PBGC. The agency botched its takeover of their pensions by defying the benefit priorities established by statute in an effort to keep money in its coffers and maximize its investment returns, the pilots said.
The PBGC allegedly blocked objections to this move by withholding information and denying them the opportunity to lodge an “informed appeal,” the pilots said.”
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/employ...ederal-insurer
Now they only have to replace $60,000.
Did they fix this part?
“The lawsuit stems from Delta’s 2005 bankruptcy filing and subsequent transfer of pension liability to the PBGC. The agency botched its takeover of their pensions by defying the benefit priorities established by statute in an effort to keep money in its coffers and maximize its investment returns, the pilots said.
The PBGC allegedly blocked objections to this move by withholding information and denying them the opportunity to lodge an “informed appeal,” the pilots said.”
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/employ...ederal-insurer
Yup, $60k/yr, just like I said on my reply to you above (post #612).
The laws changed after the Great Recession, precisely because of those issues you’ve pointed out.
My point being is that a pension doesn’t go completely away to zero. It may go down (to a limit) if FDX/UPS goes BK and they can convince a judge to divest the pension to the PBGC. At FDX/UPS, pilots have both a defined benefit plan and a defined contribution plan (9%/12%) respectively. Neither are 100% safe. In Bk, the pension can go down. In a down market, the 401k can go down just as much if not more. Having some of both, doesn’t sound scary to me, as some alluded to on this thread. But if the economy is bad enough for a judge to find it that for FDX/UPS have to divest it’s pension plan in order to remain viable, what will the stock market look like and do to your 401k? If you only have your 401k?
Each plan is a hedge against the other, if you have both.
Last edited by FXLAX; 02-08-2020 at 01:11 PM.
02-08-2020, 02:01 PM
#622
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,189
Yup, $60k/yr, just like I said on my reply to you above (post #612).
The laws changed after the Great Recession, precisely because of those issues you’ve pointed out.
My point being is that a pension doesn’t go completely away to zero. It may go down (to a limit) if FDX/UPS goes BK and they can convince a judge to divest the pension to the PBGC. At FDX/UPS, pilots have both a defined benefit plan and a defined contribution plan (9%/12%) respectively. Neither are 100% safe. In Bk, the pension can go down. In a down market, the 401k can go down just as much if not more. Having some of both, doesn’t sound scary to me, as some alluded to on this thread. But if the economy is bad enough for a judge to find it that for FDX/UPS have to divest it’s pension plan in order to remain viable, what will the stock market look like and do to your 401k? If you only have your 401k?
Each plan is a hedge against the other, if you have both.
The laws changed after the Great Recession, precisely because of those issues you’ve pointed out.
My point being is that a pension doesn’t go completely away to zero. It may go down (to a limit) if FDX/UPS goes BK and they can convince a judge to divest the pension to the PBGC. At FDX/UPS, pilots have both a defined benefit plan and a defined contribution plan (9%/12%) respectively. Neither are 100% safe. In Bk, the pension can go down. In a down market, the 401k can go down just as much if not more. Having some of both, doesn’t sound scary to me, as some alluded to on this thread. But if the economy is bad enough for a judge to find it that for FDX/UPS have to divest it’s pension plan in order to remain viable, what will the stock market look like and do to your 401k? If you only have your 401k?
Each plan is a hedge against the other, if you have both.
As to your statements worrying about 401k’s in a down economy, you can always invest in real estate or something else so that you don’t have all your eggs in the stock market basket.
02-08-2020, 02:23 PM
#623
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 577
My father had the same thing happen in the early 80’s!
02-08-2020, 02:48 PM
#624
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,141
I had not seen the changes to PBGC, thanks for pointing that out. Losing 50ish percent of your pension is certainly better than our predecessors had it when they lost almost everything.
As to your statements worrying about 401k’s in a down economy, you can always invest in real estate or something else so that you don’t have all your eggs in the stock market basket.
As to your statements worrying about 401k’s in a down economy, you can always invest in real estate or something else so that you don’t have all your eggs in the stock market basket.
Some people lost a lot of equity during the Great Recession as well. But I don’t think you can simply withdraw from your 401k without paying income taxes plus a 10% penalty anyway. So I’m not sure taking that money out would be a good idea, especially if you’re already down in your portfolio.
02-08-2020, 04:53 PM
#625
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,189
Some people lost a lot of equity during the Great Recession as well. But I don’t think you can simply withdraw from your 401k without paying income taxes plus a 10% penalty anyway. So I’m not sure taking that money out would be a good idea, especially if you’re already down in your portfolio.
02-08-2020, 07:42 PM
#627
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 617
https://www.daveramsey.com/askdave/saving/10620
He explains here why it’s a good idea to be 100% in mutual funds throughout your retirement years. He acknowledges that his advice goes against what many financial advisers suggest.
02-09-2020, 06:15 AM
#628
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 211
Check out this post from Dave Ramsey, who is a financial talk show host...
https://www.daveramsey.com/askdave/saving/10620
He explains here why it’s a good idea to be 100% in mutual funds throughout your retirement years. He acknowledges that his advice goes against what many financial advisers suggest.
https://www.daveramsey.com/askdave/saving/10620
He explains here why it’s a good idea to be 100% in mutual funds throughout your retirement years. He acknowledges that his advice goes against what many financial advisers suggest.
A good study to look at is called the Trinity Study. It’s based on real historical data. Takes portfolios with different mixes of stocks and bonds and shows how long an annual 4% more or less withdrawal rate will last you without running out of money. It’s a very interesting study.
Here is a synopsis of the study from Forbes. The chart is very interesting to look at.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...d-to-2018/amp/
02-09-2020, 08:58 AM
#629
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,141
I won’t comment on what is best to do with your non-retirement income since that is definitely beyond the scope of this thread. Suffice it to say, that any pilot can choose to invest their disposable income in real estate. That doesn’t change the points about defined benefit plans and defined contribution plans.
02-09-2020, 10:19 AM
#630
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,189
I won’t comment on what is best to do with your non-retirement income since that is definitely beyond the scope of this thread. Suffice it to say, that any pilot can choose to invest their disposable income in real estate. That doesn’t change the points about defined benefit plans and defined contribution plans.
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