Seneca Pilot

Do you believe that electricity prices will not rise at night if everyone in the US is charging their cars at that time? Do you also not believe that the federal and state governments will not tax the electricity or mileage driven to collect the equivalent amount of revenue? I just can't see the overall cost of transportation changing much once the dust settles. I will admit to being older and a bit jaded having watched the government grow itself and it's tax base dramatically over my lifetime.

If the argument is that the world will be a cleaner place with EVs as the primary source of transportation, I am on board. Cheaper in the long run, I am not so sure. Given that I spent a lot for the X that I have there are better examples, but the savings that I see in cheaper energy costs will have quite a long payoff period due to the premium price for the vehicle. I hope that makes sense. Now those car races where the vehicle is wind powered and going much faster than the wind speed, hard to tax or charge for wind. We just can't count on the wind and those vehicles have to be so small and uncomfortable looking, but man it would be cheap to run.

galaxy flyer

My state has subsidized and installed large solar farms, our electrical rates have gone nowhere but up. I pay 26.787 cents per KW, supplied and delivered. No off-peak rates available for residences except for huge homes. No way is an expensive Tesla competitive in price, that’s the equivalent of $8.83 per gallon.

Seneca Pilot

That is the difficulty of the conversation. I have to use national averages because the minutia of getting into state rates and off peak makes any calculations impossible. Someone who lives in a state with ten cent KWH pricing and has a 40% off peak discount can't fathom that prices in other places can be as much as three times more. I always try to be as optimistic as I can but I just don't see where the market forces and government's tendency to "maximize revenue" won't eventually catch up to EVs.

Add to that CA who cannot even make it through a normal summer without rolling blackouts due to cooling days and there will be grid problems when the EV demand really starts to get momentum. Market share for EVs is still only barely over 1% in this country. That is projected to explode and EVs need lots of power to charge, fifty amp circuits to achieve a full charge overnight.

When speaking with an electrician, let them know that Tesla recommends a NEMA 14-50. That's a 240V outlet on a 50 AMP circuit breaker. This will charge a Tesla Model 3 at a rate of roughly 30 miles per hour. If you already have a 240V plug installed nearby, Tesla offers adapters for the majority of outlets.

galaxy flyer

My car “recharges” at 30 miles every 13 seconds, so there’s that.

Profane Kahuna

dude you had me right up until you went wacko and blamed the Mexicans.

The people streaming across the southern border are coming here because there are jobs.

Texas is turning purple because people streaming across the western border....in other words, white folk fleeing California.

sailingfun

That 8.83 will drive a Model Y 130 miles at least. You are talking 5 gallons of gas for the average car to do that. Your electrical rates are however truly horrible. As mentioned the national average is 13 cents per kilowatt and I pay 9. In addition there is actually no scheduled service for a Tesla. I spend 130 a year to drive 6000 miles. Less than the average annual oil change/service on a Ford before you even discuss buying gas.

Edit: The national average is actually well below 13 cents per kilowatt.

Electricity Rates By State (Updated February 2021)

Electricity prices vary in each state. We have compiled years of data to find pricing trends around the country. You can see data for all 50 states below, but deregulated states are labeled in each chart/graph.

• The Average Electricity Rate in the U.S. is 10.42 cents per kilowatt-hour.
• Hawaii has the highest average electricity rate of 30.55 cents per kilowatt-hour.
• Louisiana has the lowest average electricity rate of 7.01cents per kilowatt-hour.

Seneca Pilot

I think the average I quoted was inclusive of taxes, not sure but there are different numbers floating around for the average price from different sources. EIA as of Jan 2021 has the average at 12.69.

Your point is well taken. In today's environment and energy pricing electric is cheaper by the mile even when offset by higher purchase prices of the vehicle. I think point we make is that the energy prices you have today will not be static. We won't know for a decade or two so this is all academic at this point but my prediction is that the price to drive 100 miles in an EV in 2040 will be strikingly similar to the price to drive 100 miles today in a gasoline vehicle even adjusted for inflation.

fcoolaiddrinker

you might be right but keep in mind all those EV that are plugged in at night are not necessarily charging. They could have done that during the day with large solar house panels. A certain percentage of them will be plugged into the grid with thier power available for purchase. It’s going to get interesting because obviously power companies will still need to exist. I’m just not sure how there going to compete when everyone has power for sale? More than likely they’ll just be a charge to be connected to the grid. My electric bill in AZ was kind of already like that. Less than half was for actual electricity used.

Seneca Pilot

So far the power companies have been very successful in their campaigns to make sure it is illegal to be off the grid in most places. You guys are actually preaching to the choir. I am planning a home right now with passive house efficiency numbers and a solar roof and battery storage for nightime use and charging, however solar is very expensive so we have these numbers signaling a long way to go.

Just 6% of U.S. homeowners say they have already installed solar panels at home. Another 46% say they have given serious thought to adding solar panels at their home in the past year.

fcoolaiddrinker

You might want to be connected if your net positive with generation? Depending on connecting cost. I’ll bet that goes up substantially though and once you connect it’s a done deal. That’s how natural gas was once I connected to that in AZ. Almost wish I hadn’t and stuck with electric heat and my fireplace.