jumppilot

Of course it’s a choice. You weighed the pros and cons and decided you were going to commute - your post said as much.

Like a previous poster said, many professions truly don’t have a choice. If you get relocated and don’t move you lose your job. Hard to come to the office everyday when you live 500 miles away.

NoDeskJob

Sure it’s a “choice” to commute.... My spouse is in the military. So we live where the DOD says. So much for my F-ing choice!
Guess I made the “choice” to marry a military woman and should NEVER have done so!
*sarcasm*

flensr

You're half right but it sounds like you're still bitter about it.

"Guess I made the “choice” to marry a military woman". Should have put a period right there and been done with it, like everyone else who married someone in the military. Get over that resentment or it'll mess with you for the rest of your life and possibly ruin your marriage.

Because you DID have a choice. And you made it, eyes open, knowing what it meant, what it would get you, what it would cost you. And you still made it. Don't try to pretend you're a victim or had no choice, because you did and still do.

One of the most bitter pilots I ever flew with went to USAF UPT. His wife fought it every step of the way, to the point where he quit. Then they divorced anyhow. The rest of his life he gets to live with that, how it went down and the opportunity he lost (gave up). He and his wife made their choices and it still went all to crap. In the end, he's making bank in the airlines but the path he ended up on based on the choices he and his wife made left a lot of room for resentment when looking back on it. Don't be that guy. Or if you are that guy, try to realize that everyone makes the best choices they can based on what they know and value at that moment. Second guessing in hindsight is pointless when it makes you feel bad, unless you're able to use that self-reflection to make better and happier choices going forward, every day.

Just don't pretend that you don't have choices. Because you made choices that had consequences you could see coming, and you're still making choices. The universe doesn't owe you a menu of the best optimal choices, you have to fight to create options and then you still have to choose among them.

badflaps

Hey, you still have the commisary and the Class 6, not to mention the OWC.

NoDeskJob

You don’t get it. I’m not bitter at all. I love my life.
What I hate is when people seriously make statements like “commuting is a choice”.
It is not a choice for everyone.

I have a lot of other choice words I’d like to give you, but I know the post would get removed.

Qotsaautopilot

You’re not understanding him. Commuting is a choice. You are choosing to do because you chose to marry who you did AND chose to be an airline pilot at the same time. You knew that would mean commuting and you chose it anyway. Not saying it was a bad choice just saying you chose to commute.

Pilots that say they have roots and family and kids in school etc so they don’t have a choice but to commute is nonsense. That is the definition of choice. If they worked in nearly any other line of work and were offered a job away from their hometown they would have to move for that job. And if they were transferred (read: base closure) or promoted (read: upgrade) they’d have to move again if they wanted to stay employed or make more money etc. there is no commuting option.

The difference is pilots have the option to commute. Option means choice. That’s also why most contracts provide moving benefits in a displacement scenario. Your job was essentially transferred elsewhere so the company is going to pay to relocate you. You choose to or not to take advantage of that. If you don’t you become a commuter and that was a choice. Just like living in BFE (btw I like BFE much more than hub cities) hours away from your place of employment is a choice. You don’t HAVE to commute.

I commuted for 7 years and have lived in base for about 5. there are places I’d rather live than in base but the choice to commute and the cons associated far outweighs those pros. Different people have a different cost benefit analysis. It’s always a choice though.

A few things are for certain though. As a commuter you sacrifice a some level of earning potential, varying amounts of time (usually more than you think), and add some level of stress.

SoFloFlyer

I totally get what you’re saying. I really do. Commuting is a choice by it’s actual definition. But since there’s a crazy thing called life, practically speaking, commuting is not a choice. Just like uprooting for a job across the country wouldn’t happen because you don’t want to put yourself in that situation.

You’re saying everything is a choice. You choose not to commute. You to commute. You choose to marry someone. You choose a specific job/field. Etc.. etc.. etc.. but that’s not practical since you can marry a person and not know expect to have that person be relocated. To have that that person decide to want to live in a different state or to want to stay in that same state. You eat the point. Everything is TECHNICALLY a choice, but practically speaking, communities is not a choice (MOST of the time).

swaayze

Now we're getting somewhere SoFlo.

Ultimately, you have a choice. Sometimes it feels otherwise because we may not want to acknowledge that we are ultimately responsible for where we are in life (with very few exceptions). To say “it’s not really a choice because....” is to imply that life is fair, that there is a lack of control over your own decisions, and it plays the blame game. If you really don’t want to commute, just don’t. Quit, or move, or stick with the commute based on your priorities, but it’s disingenuous to say unequivocally that you don’t have a choice. (BTW, I’m speaking generally wrt “you”, not you specifically SoFlo since you’ve illuminated the difference).

I know that sounds cold, but I really do empathize with those who commute but don’t want to. I’ve BTDT and it caused me to subsequently make some hard decisions to avoid it, giving up plenty of money and career aspirations in the process, so I guess I just have little tolerance when I hear “it’s not a choice”. Reminds me of one of my new favorite sayings: “Hard choices, easy life. Easy choices, hard life.”

4thefamily

Pilot/financial planner here, I’m searching for the same and can at least tell you to rule out Jetblue. My family has been “bringing humanity back to air travel” for over ten years at the expense of our own humanity. We have always chosen to live in base and it’s still hard to not feel like a long haul truck driver. I just missed my 9yr old’s first soccer goal after 4yrs of soccer and I’m supposed to be the assistant coach! I can’t commit to anything. Church, sports, poker night... I always say “Count me in and hopefully I’ll be there half the time”. On paper, everything’s great. Well into six figures, sixteen days off, and flying an Airbus... In reality, a computer program and a bunch of guys changing desires above me in seniority determina which days off, and what kinds of trips I’m flying. Once a year or so I get out and backs (no overnight stay) and two-day trips (only one overnight stay) and think maybe I’ve finaly made it but the next month reminds me that I will never make it here. This month and the next I’m choosing reserve since I’m only eligible for 3, 4, and 5 day trips. So, while 16 days off sounds like a yes to family, 14 days of traveling even with zero commute days is still a giant no!
Financially speaking:
1. Allegiant pays half (giant ballpark out of my a$$) of what a “major” or “Legacy” pays, but it isn’t even close to being the same job.

4thefamily

Pilot/financial planner here, I’m searching for the same and can at least tell you to rule out Jetblue. My family has been “bringing humanity back to air travel” for over ten years at the expense of our own humanity. We have always chosen to live in base and it’s still hard to not feel like a long haul truck driver. I just missed my 9yr old’s first soccer goal after 4yrs of soccer and I’m supposed to be the assistant coach! I can’t commit to anything. Church, sports, poker night... I always say “Count me in and hopefully I’ll be there half the time”. On paper, everything’s great. Well into six figures, sixteen days off, and flying an Airbus...
In reality, a computer program and a bunch of guys above me in seniority determine which days off, and what kinds of trips I’m flying. Once a year or so I get out and backs (no overnight stay) and two-day trips (only one overnight stay) and think maybe I’ve finaly made it but the next month reminds me that I will probably never make it here. This month and the next I’m choosing reserve since I’m only eligible for 3, 4, and 5 day trips. So, while 16 days off sounds like a yes to family, 14 days of traveling even with zero commute days is still a giant no! After over 15yrs at Mesa and Jetblue, I think I’ve learned that Delta, United, and Southwest may give you a chance considering their superior work rules, but the rest are an uphill battle unless you have found a niche that works from the start like home every night at Allegiant, Hawaiian 717 inter island turns, or something that works for you from the start as oposed to after gaining seniority some day in the distant future (typical carrot)
Also consider work rules very seriously and if the company works around them. Contracts are finite and ways around them are infinite. If your company wants to connect you to the matrix and suck you dry, they easily can. Do the pilots and management have a good relationship?
Also, what does AM/PM mean, at Allegiant and Southwest, AM doesn’t mean 0430 like it does at Jetblue and PM doesn’t mean until the sun comes up. I highly recommend finding a place that will let you have either/or consistently as oposed to both at any time as long as it’s legal according to FAR 117. It’s the difference between being a happy family man/woman with a consistent rest cycle and an irritable AH who looks like a crypt keeper and who’s family doesn’t enjoy being around anyway.

Financially speaking:
1. Allegiant pays half (giant ballpark out of my a$$) of what a “major” or “Legacy” pays, but it isn’t even close to being the same job.
Out and backs and home every night vs. long haul truck driver. It would be like driving an eighteen wheeler 4 days a week from down the street to a town two hours away and then back home and then comparing your career to a long haul trucker who is gone half the month. It shouldn’t even be compared. It’s also an Airbus which I would be happy to retire on.
2. You don’t “need” a minimum of 100k.
The average household income is far less and the average net worth of 99% of people on Earth is estimated to be less than 20k U.S. Dollars. After removing the less than 1% that have over 40% of the wealth...

My current consideration is Watching Elf and Liar Liar and then doing the right thing for the family. Delta, Allegiant, back to financial planning, lemonade stand...

Unless you find a niche, this is not a family friendly career. Your competition is single people, empty nesters, people who don’t put “home with the family” before $$$ for various reasons, and us poor few who are trying to be in-base at home with our spouse and young kids. We will probably always be the minority without much of a voice during contract negotiations.