2017 W2 Earnings
01-05-2018, 06:23 PM
#211
Retired.
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 423
Nice.
Agree that we had to each sh!t to get to the majors.
I drove taxi cabs in Northern Europe, night and day, summer and winter to save money for flight school. Got at least 5000 hours doing that. Also sailed in the Merchant Marine, cleaning tanks in the North Sea at winter when I was a teenager. Did that for a few years.
After flight school I went to Alaska and flew bush out of an Eskimo town on the tundra. Had a honey bucket for a toilet.
Did that for a few years. Still no turbine time.
No college.
Clawed my way up and ended up as a 747 Captain before I was 40.
Had it made, then the gig went BK.
Start over again, bottom of AA’s senility list.
Had it made.
Then 9/11 and long furloughs.
On my hands and knees scrubbing teak decks on yachts to pay my property taxes for a year.
Then took a job flying freight for a scumbag operation out of the MIA corrosion corner.
Then recalled after a few years. Then age 65 kicked in
Not complaining, it has been a rush, but to get to a major was not a cakewalk.
01-05-2018, 08:56 PM
#214
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 162
This thread is fascinating. In nearly every other profession in the US it's pretty much verboten to discuss compensation with anyone other than one's spouse, and here folks are posting their W2s. Not a criticism, just an observation.
I gotta say, though, folks. Speaking as someone who spent 20+ years in the corporate (non-aviation world) before taking on a second job at a regional airline because I figured 7K hours of piston flying was enough, we airline pilots have it really, really good.
In my day job — which I'm able to do because I bid weekend flying and split-duty trips during weeknights — I work in advertising. Actually, I run my own 50-person company. In this field, like just about any other corporate pursuit, the very concept of a job that requires one to work 100-150 days per year, and potentially earn compensation in the $300-$500K range, is simply unheard of. You'd be laughed out of any corporate interview (including mine) if you suggested a deal like that.
Typically in the higher echelons of corporate America you'll work about 2,300--2,500 hours per year, which translates into approximately 230-250 days 'worked.' (Then again, you're really 'working' every day, even if it's just three hours on a Sunday. There is no concept of 'off' days anymore...you are chained to your smartphone.)
Whereas, in aviation, when you block in and walk off the airplane, you're done. Aside from a few quarterly online training tasks — which we all do on our overnights or during Airport Appreciation time anyways — and aside from some brushup studying for recurrent, there's almost nothing we have to do when we're not on a trip. At this income level, it's impossible to have that kind of arrangement in corporate America.
All I'm saying is, we pilots are good at complaining. The food, the van times, the flow delays, management, contracts, dispatch, MX, catering, crew scheduling, reserve assignments...we'll complain about it all. But for those of you who had to suffer through a non-airline career before you put on your stripes, you know what I'm talking about. This is the Best. Job. In. The. World.*
*Until, of course, the proverbial **** hits the fan, which is what pilots are really paid for. And the consequences of errors in that situation are far greater than errors made by, let's say, a VP of Marketing in some corner office somewhere. So there's that.
All I'm saying is — compared to the vast, vast majority of professionals, we pilots (well, you major airline pilots, to be specific) have it really, really good. Next time you're up in the flight levels, just think about what you could be doing instead — like most people, sitting in a grey cubicle, working twice as much for half the pay.
Maybe that will make that involuntary extension into your day off, or the hotel van showing up 30 minutes late when you've just spent 16 hours slogging across the country in the middle of Snowmageddon, sting a bit less
I gotta say, though, folks. Speaking as someone who spent 20+ years in the corporate (non-aviation world) before taking on a second job at a regional airline because I figured 7K hours of piston flying was enough, we airline pilots have it really, really good.
In my day job — which I'm able to do because I bid weekend flying and split-duty trips during weeknights — I work in advertising. Actually, I run my own 50-person company. In this field, like just about any other corporate pursuit, the very concept of a job that requires one to work 100-150 days per year, and potentially earn compensation in the $300-$500K range, is simply unheard of. You'd be laughed out of any corporate interview (including mine) if you suggested a deal like that.
Typically in the higher echelons of corporate America you'll work about 2,300--2,500 hours per year, which translates into approximately 230-250 days 'worked.' (Then again, you're really 'working' every day, even if it's just three hours on a Sunday. There is no concept of 'off' days anymore...you are chained to your smartphone.)
Whereas, in aviation, when you block in and walk off the airplane, you're done. Aside from a few quarterly online training tasks — which we all do on our overnights or during Airport Appreciation time anyways — and aside from some brushup studying for recurrent, there's almost nothing we have to do when we're not on a trip. At this income level, it's impossible to have that kind of arrangement in corporate America.
All I'm saying is, we pilots are good at complaining. The food, the van times, the flow delays, management, contracts, dispatch, MX, catering, crew scheduling, reserve assignments...we'll complain about it all. But for those of you who had to suffer through a non-airline career before you put on your stripes, you know what I'm talking about. This is the Best. Job. In. The. World.*
*Until, of course, the proverbial **** hits the fan, which is what pilots are really paid for. And the consequences of errors in that situation are far greater than errors made by, let's say, a VP of Marketing in some corner office somewhere. So there's that.
All I'm saying is — compared to the vast, vast majority of professionals, we pilots (well, you major airline pilots, to be specific) have it really, really good. Next time you're up in the flight levels, just think about what you could be doing instead — like most people, sitting in a grey cubicle, working twice as much for half the pay.
Maybe that will make that involuntary extension into your day off, or the hotel van showing up 30 minutes late when you've just spent 16 hours slogging across the country in the middle of Snowmageddon, sting a bit less
Those individuals in the cubicles are not medically evaluated every 6 months or annually depending on their age. How many of them have health issues that are a direct result of their job?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
01-05-2018, 10:47 PM
#216
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 290
AA narrow body Captain
12+ year pay
313000 including per diem and profit sharing. plus 36K into 401k
4 months reserve 73 hr pay per month 8 months line holding
623 hours flown
Worked way too many days. Averaged about 17 days plus many commutes on days off
Commuter
No voluntary overtime. Sometimes they make you do it.
3 weeks vacation
30 hours unused sick paid out
I rarely trip trade.
12+ year pay
313000 including per diem and profit sharing. plus 36K into 401k
4 months reserve 73 hr pay per month 8 months line holding
623 hours flown
Worked way too many days. Averaged about 17 days plus many commutes on days off
Commuter
No voluntary overtime. Sometimes they make you do it.
3 weeks vacation
30 hours unused sick paid out
I rarely trip trade.
Because if he put $24K in, the max the company can put in is $36K, after that the 16% goes to him as pay.
01-05-2018, 11:15 PM
#217
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 195
Look, flying for a living has its downsides, but it seems to me that airline pilots don’t get paid to just fly airplanes. Flying airplanes is something rich private pilots do for fun on the weekends. What airline pilots are paid to do is to deal with the crappy part of flying — spend half the year in airport hotels, miss holidays with family, deal with passengers, and yes, accept the risk that a medical issue can cost your job.
I’m nothing more than an aspiring airline pilot, but I’m sick of pilots on this forum and elsewhere who’ve got no idea of how lucky they are to fly for a living. As a teenager in 2002 I took the advice of a jaded American pilot who discouraged me from becoming a pilot because he was tired of the post-9/11 airline industry. He’d never made his living doing anything other than flying. 16 years later, he’s making $300k flying 777s across the Pacific once a week and I’m considering throwing away a successful non-aviation career and taking a huge pay cut just to start at the bottom in professional aviation. It’s taken all this time just to re-learn what I already knew but allowed myself to be talked out of: I want to fly for a living.
I’d be much better off today if I’d taken my advice from someone who’d seen the grass on both sides and better appreciated the fact that airline pilots have it much better than the MBAs, accountants, and lawyers clawing for C-suite gigs.
01-06-2018, 12:48 AM
#218
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Uh, have you ever worked a high-salary desk job? Think about what a 70 hour workweek does to your body, your mind, and your family relationships. Think about responding to work emails at the dinner table and fretting about that lawsuit while laying in bed at 3 AM.
Look, flying for a living has its downsides, but it seems to me that airline pilots don’t get paid to just fly airplanes. Flying airplanes is something rich private pilots do for fun on the weekends. What airline pilots are paid to do is to deal with the crappy part of flying — spend half the year in airport hotels, miss holidays with family, deal with passengers, and yes, accept the risk that a medical issue can cost your job.
I’m nothing more than an aspiring airline pilot, but I’m sick of pilots on this forum and elsewhere who’ve got no idea of how lucky they are to fly for a living. As a teenager in 2002 I took the advice of a jaded American pilot who discouraged me from becoming a pilot because he was tired of the post-9/11 airline industry. He’d never made his living doing anything other than flying. 16 years later, he’s making $300k flying 777s across the Pacific once a week and I’m considering throwing away a successful non-aviation career and taking a huge pay cut just to start at the bottom in professional aviation. It’s taken all this time just to re-learn what I already knew but allowed myself to be talked out of: I want to fly for a living.
I’d be much better off today if I’d taken my advice from someone who’d seen the grass on both sides and better appreciated the fact that airline pilots have it much better than the MBAs, accountants, and lawyers clawing for C-suite gigs.
Look, flying for a living has its downsides, but it seems to me that airline pilots don’t get paid to just fly airplanes. Flying airplanes is something rich private pilots do for fun on the weekends. What airline pilots are paid to do is to deal with the crappy part of flying — spend half the year in airport hotels, miss holidays with family, deal with passengers, and yes, accept the risk that a medical issue can cost your job.
I’m nothing more than an aspiring airline pilot, but I’m sick of pilots on this forum and elsewhere who’ve got no idea of how lucky they are to fly for a living. As a teenager in 2002 I took the advice of a jaded American pilot who discouraged me from becoming a pilot because he was tired of the post-9/11 airline industry. He’d never made his living doing anything other than flying. 16 years later, he’s making $300k flying 777s across the Pacific once a week and I’m considering throwing away a successful non-aviation career and taking a huge pay cut just to start at the bottom in professional aviation. It’s taken all this time just to re-learn what I already knew but allowed myself to be talked out of: I want to fly for a living.
I’d be much better off today if I’d taken my advice from someone who’d seen the grass on both sides and better appreciated the fact that airline pilots have it much better than the MBAs, accountants, and lawyers clawing for C-suite gigs.
There are jobs that are well paid that aren't flying or soul sucking. My son is paid $220K/yr to work 40 hour weeks and sleep in his own bed every night. He also gets unlimited paid time off, breakfast, lunch and dinner cooked, free alcohol, massages, and hundreds of thousands of $$ in stock... and he's in his twenties. Not many airline pilots with that deal.
I'm sorry you got talked out of doing what you wanted to, but don't buy into the idea that this is a fantasy job. Plenty of misery, difficult and stressful situations, health/sleep issues, and that's not even touching the stress of furloughs, job loss and medical issues.
01-06-2018, 01:40 AM
#219
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,821
Funny. I had that desk job where I took the work home with me. Making sure that high dollar negotiated contract was exactly right...that the $18 million dollar investment was going to be delivered on time, that my executives were where they needed to be, schedules were in order, being on call 24/7...and then going flying for a weekend! Oh wait—that was my corporate flying job. And yes, we serviced the lav, too.
Or how about being an FO on a Saab 340 based at DFW. Summer temps on a ramp over 115 degrees, six legs a day on a five-day reserve block. Nearly 800 block hours flown and paid a paltry $25K a year...on third year pay! Great. Dishwasher just flooded the kitchen and baby is sick. I’m glad I bid the SHV and ACT overnights so I can eat breakfast for free.
I submit to you buddy, that pilots aren’t paid for what you say—but for the time that we were climbing over the Rocky Mountains coming out of DEN at night in winter time when the cabin pressure suddenly drops and red lights start flashing and horns start blaring.
Or when, during low visibility in blowing snow out of Chicago, we rotate during takeoff and the #2 engine craters.
Or when enroute, the T-prop we are operating has a high pressure oil line separation which again results in a shutdown (and a ton of oil on the right side of the plane).
Or that time when the lady crashed out of the lav, rolled into the galley and proceeded with a cardiac event.
We are paid for those times when people in the back are screaming.
Yeah, I guess I am lucky. Probably because I landed a gig that thousands of other qualified pilots are still trying to land, and “aspiring” airline pilots tell me that I am.
But I’m also a college educated, multi-lingual civilian that worked his ******* ass off over the last 25 years building that luck.
But my best luck—or worst—was knowing what direction I was going to go in (Aviation) from a single-digit age.
A dime a dozen for guys or gals like me at the airlines, corporate, or military aviation departments.
Lucky ass doctors...
01-06-2018, 04:54 AM
#220
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: American Airlines Brake Pad Replacement Technician
Posts: 476
2017 W2 Earnings
This thread was chock full of good data salary points.
Here's an attempt to get it back on track.
Anymore Alaska data points that guys would like to share...they need more representation in this thread
Here's an attempt to get it back on track.
Anymore Alaska data points that guys would like to share...they need more representation in this thread
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
