Jump Seat as a Political Tool
03-28-2007, 01:28 PM
#81
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,995
The way I see it is that the "Green Faces" and "Face Slappers" aren't really afraid of VA, Skybus, or J/B, nor pilots of non union carriers... but their respective management who will be watching the payscales, benefits and working conditions of these new carriers. Too bad they don't have the balls to stand up to management and have to resort to such childish behavior. Bottom line, if their pilot group, association, or union is strong enough, they should be able to stand their ground when the next round of contract negotiations come around. If not well important decisions will have to be made
It's the a$$wholes with the chicken $hit attitudes that think that it's acceptable behavior and use extortion as a means to deny pilots of non union airlines the jump seats. Thank god these types are of the minority... but still is it not a sad state to be in?
It's the a$$wholes with the chicken $hit attitudes that think that it's acceptable behavior and use extortion as a means to deny pilots of non union airlines the jump seats. Thank god these types are of the minority... but still is it not a sad state to be in?
03-28-2007, 01:45 PM
#82
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 737NG CA
Posts: 766
I'm not advocating union or non union I'm advocating pay and work rules. ie low cost carriers and now ultra low cost carriers which have never raised the bar only lowered it from everything that I've seen.
by the way I've talked to some jetblue pilots who are friends and they said they would not have applied if they couldn't jumpseat because they weren't moving to NYC for those rates. quality of life issues.
I definately don't see VA's pay and especially the FO's as being fair, not for what we do and what it takes to get here.
by the way I've talked to some jetblue pilots who are friends and they said they would not have applied if they couldn't jumpseat because they weren't moving to NYC for those rates. quality of life issues.
I definately don't see VA's pay and especially the FO's as being fair, not for what we do and what it takes to get here.
You only get the jumpseat if I say you do, regardless of the reciprocal agreement. Why? Its mine.
03-28-2007, 01:48 PM
#83
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 737NG CA
Posts: 766
They can't ride mine.
03-28-2007, 01:56 PM
#84
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Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
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You still haven't answered my question from a previous post regarding going into business for yourself regarding jump seat agreements. How does your cheif pilot feel about your convictions? Are you willing to step up to the plate and aver to your chief pilot and DO that you will defy any and all agreements in place as far as non union airlines are concerned? I doubt it. I've seen all kinds in my 30 years in this business. The louder the complainers the larger the tissues they carry to wipe the brown spots off their noses when yessing their superiors.
03-28-2007, 02:04 PM
#85
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 85
You still haven't answered my question from a previous post regarding going into business for yourself regarding jump seat agreements. How does your cheif pilot feel about your convictions? Are you willing to step up to the plate and aver to your chief pilot and DO that you will defy any and all agreements in place as far as non union airlines are concerned? I doubt it. I've seen all kinds in my 30 years in this business. The louder the complainers the larger the tissues they carry to wipe the brown spots off their noses when yessing their superiors.
Glad to see there's a couple educated pilots out there. The tailspin won't quit until WE make it too tough for non-union slugs to get to work.
As far as "company policy" goes, we had a Captain who wouldn't even give the jumpseat to company guys. His rationale? I don't ask for it, so I don't give it. The company's response? "That's Captain's perogative."
ALPA policies? They're more like suggestions. Of course, the Jumpseat Committee is against punishing non-Union types. Why? ALPA is all about growing the number of represented pilots and, by extension, dues income. And that's ALL its about. Believe me, I've had numerous converstions with our jumpseat coordinator and the answer is always the same: "I wish you'd take them, but the jumpseat is SOLELY given or witheld at the CAPTAIN'S discretion.
So all you turkeys who think anyone is throwing any "blanket parties" can think again. If you're wearing the stripes, YOU decide who rides for free.
And that's really what this is all about, isn't it? Free transportation. Everyone of you who is singing the "he's just trying to get home" blues marks yourself as someone too cheap to buy a ticket. Well, if you're non-Union and undercut MY contract, you can wait for the next flight and hope that Captain is more interested in playing golf than protecting his job.
As far as "company policy" goes, we had a Captain who wouldn't even give the jumpseat to company guys. His rationale? I don't ask for it, so I don't give it. The company's response? "That's Captain's perogative."
ALPA policies? They're more like suggestions. Of course, the Jumpseat Committee is against punishing non-Union types. Why? ALPA is all about growing the number of represented pilots and, by extension, dues income. And that's ALL its about. Believe me, I've had numerous converstions with our jumpseat coordinator and the answer is always the same: "I wish you'd take them, but the jumpseat is SOLELY given or witheld at the CAPTAIN'S discretion.
So all you turkeys who think anyone is throwing any "blanket parties" can think again. If you're wearing the stripes, YOU decide who rides for free.
And that's really what this is all about, isn't it? Free transportation. Everyone of you who is singing the "he's just trying to get home" blues marks yourself as someone too cheap to buy a ticket. Well, if you're non-Union and undercut MY contract, you can wait for the next flight and hope that Captain is more interested in playing golf than protecting his job.
03-28-2007, 02:49 PM
#86
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Posts: 223
03-28-2007, 11:58 PM
#87
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Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
ALPA policies? They're more like suggestions. Of course, the Jumpseat Committee is against punishing non-Union types. Why? ALPA is all about growing the number of represented pilots and, by extension, dues income. And that's ALL its about. Believe me, I've had numerous converstions with our jumpseat coordinator and the answer is always the same: "I wish you'd take them, but the jumpseat is SOLELY given or witheld at the CAPTAIN'S discretion.
I thought your whole argument was that this would get them to unionize?
But it sounds like above that you are admitting that ALPA's contrary policy is the one that would help them be unionized?
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I just want to know what the reasons are. Well, I guess you could consider that being argumentative, but that's your perogative.
I'm still curious about the small guys who aren't competing with you.
Do you deny Grant, Warbelos and other carriers that fly tiny planes and think Alaska Airlines planes have halos around them because they can take them out of the bush because those little companies don't have a union yet?
I'm trying to get away from just talking about Jet Blue and other low cost carriers, let's talk about tiny airlines that fly in the state your company is named after.
Just a request for a point blank answer.
And I don't know if you meant it, but the above post made it sound like you'd deny them union or not if they were a low cost competitor.
03-29-2007, 06:04 AM
#88
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 737NG CA
Posts: 766
That's comparing apples to oranges. Those guys are welcome to ride.
But, if you fly comparable equipment on a non-union basis doing the same job for less undercutting my contract, don't ask for a benefit that is negotiated in my contract.
Seems pretty simple to me. Apparently, the concept is too complex for a number of posters here.
03-29-2007, 01:23 PM
#89
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Posts: 223
03-29-2007, 02:01 PM
#90
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Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: EMB120 CA
Posts: 299
I assume you work for Alaska or CAL? (I'm just guessing) Either way, why would you deny a skyw pilot the jumpseat as we have a reciprocal agreement (CASS) with each other? I can tell you, I have had more than a handful of Alaska, CAL, AA, etc. occupy the actual jumpseat while I've been flying. If us non-union pilots are so unworthy of a jumpseat ride, should we then also stop allowing union guys on our jumpseats? Personally, I think it's silly and I would never deny anyone the jumpseat who we had a reciprocal agreement with (but then again I'm not a captain yet). In fact, if you denied a skyw pilot the jumpseat, I'll bet he/she would still let your carrier's pilots still ride. Just my $.02.
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