Jump Seat as a Political Tool
03-27-2007, 05:22 PM
#72
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: B744, laying down, in the bunk.
Posts: 223
If a guy refuses a job, will you then subsidize his life?
Last edited by N570UP; 03-27-2007 at 07:27 PM.
03-28-2007, 08:48 AM
#73
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
how do you plan on influencing them if they know all of the stakes...what's your approach?
03-28-2007, 09:08 AM
#74
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
I have yet to see any start up raise the bar. They've always remained under the bar to give them that competive advantage and called themselve a low cost carrier. Now we've got these new airlines calling themselve an ultra low cost carrier. they aren't doing anything new to achieve these ultra low rates except cut employee pay.
I'm still waiting to see the low cost carriers raise that bar...
03-28-2007, 09:36 AM
#75
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: B777 Left
Posts: 736
so if we give these guys a chance how long should we wait? 5 years 10 years? If things haven't changed by then what do you suggest we do?
I have yet to see any start up raise the bar. They've always remained under the bar to give them that competive advantage and called themselve a low cost carrier. Now we've got these new airlines calling themselve an ultra low cost carrier. they aren't doing anything new to achieve these ultra low rates except cut employee pay.
I'm still waiting to see the low cost carriers raise that bar...
I have yet to see any start up raise the bar. They've always remained under the bar to give them that competive advantage and called themselve a low cost carrier. Now we've got these new airlines calling themselve an ultra low cost carrier. they aren't doing anything new to achieve these ultra low rates except cut employee pay.
I'm still waiting to see the low cost carriers raise that bar...
The jumpseat issue is going to prevent someone from taking a "fair" paying job at a startup that might end up like SWA? Keep dreaming. Again, let the poor guy ride your jumpseat, and if you think, educate him what terrific benefits you have with your union. If you truely care about getting everyone on the same page.
03-28-2007, 10:50 AM
#76
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B727
Posts: 194
[QUOTE=Eric Stratton;140472]sometimes you need to slap them and say "wake up" or "snap out of it".
QUOTE]
BS. You expect somebody to pass on a job because you and Greenface are offended? You gotta be kidding. You must have a lot of trouble fitting your ego's into a cockpit.
I see you didn't answer my question above: do you seriously think you can influence ANYONE by slapping them in the face, either figuratively or actually?
If you want to be a jerk to your fellow aviators, go ahead. But realize what goes around comes around. You might not think you'll ever be in the position of taking what you now think of as a sub standard job or losing everything you have, but maybe you will. If you are in that position, I guarantee all the chest thumping you're doing now will seem pretty thin when you consider the effect your decision has on your family and future.
I'm done with this. It's apparent that a huge majority of crewmembers are decent people that don't need to build their ego's by "slapping them to say wake up or snap out of it." That makes this whole discussion pointless.
QUOTE]
BS. You expect somebody to pass on a job because you and Greenface are offended? You gotta be kidding. You must have a lot of trouble fitting your ego's into a cockpit.
I see you didn't answer my question above: do you seriously think you can influence ANYONE by slapping them in the face, either figuratively or actually?
If you want to be a jerk to your fellow aviators, go ahead. But realize what goes around comes around. You might not think you'll ever be in the position of taking what you now think of as a sub standard job or losing everything you have, but maybe you will. If you are in that position, I guarantee all the chest thumping you're doing now will seem pretty thin when you consider the effect your decision has on your family and future.
I'm done with this. It's apparent that a huge majority of crewmembers are decent people that don't need to build their ego's by "slapping them to say wake up or snap out of it." That makes this whole discussion pointless.
03-28-2007, 11:15 AM
#77
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 125
[QUOTE=org1;140532]
Jumpseat is reciprocate. Deny it and the pendulum will swing. Inevitably. Karma
sometimes you need to slap them and say "wake up" or "snap out of it".
QUOTE]
BS. You expect somebody to pass on a job because you and Greenface are offended? You gotta be kidding. You must have a lot of trouble fitting your ego's into a cockpit.
I see you didn't answer my question above: do you seriously think you can influence ANYONE by slapping them in the face, either figuratively or actually?
If you want to be a jerk to your fellow aviators, go ahead. But realize what goes around comes around. You might not think you'll ever be in the position of taking what you now think of as a sub standard job or losing everything you have, but maybe you will. If you are in that position, I guarantee all the chest thumping you're doing now will seem pretty thin when you consider the effect your decision has on your family and future.
I'm done with this. It's apparent that a huge majority of crewmembers are decent people that don't need to build their ego's by "slapping them to say wake up or snap out of it." That makes this whole discussion pointless.
QUOTE]
BS. You expect somebody to pass on a job because you and Greenface are offended? You gotta be kidding. You must have a lot of trouble fitting your ego's into a cockpit.
I see you didn't answer my question above: do you seriously think you can influence ANYONE by slapping them in the face, either figuratively or actually?
If you want to be a jerk to your fellow aviators, go ahead. But realize what goes around comes around. You might not think you'll ever be in the position of taking what you now think of as a sub standard job or losing everything you have, but maybe you will. If you are in that position, I guarantee all the chest thumping you're doing now will seem pretty thin when you consider the effect your decision has on your family and future.
I'm done with this. It's apparent that a huge majority of crewmembers are decent people that don't need to build their ego's by "slapping them to say wake up or snap out of it." That makes this whole discussion pointless.
03-28-2007, 11:37 AM
#78
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 777 FO
Posts: 931
We've beaten the Jetblue, VA, SW thing to death about jumpseats. Next part of the question is whether or not you would give the jumpseat to a pilot who's airline had a union in place, yet that pilot was not a member of his own union. I think that's probably a better question to ask. Would any of you change your mind on that one?
03-28-2007, 12:57 PM
#79
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
When does an established carrier no longer become a "startup". A list of some startups during my career.....FedEx (early 70s), UPS (late 80s?), SWA (mid 70s), AirTran (mid 90s), JetBlue (late 90s). Just some of the success stories. The list of failed startups probably is five times that long, but was it because the pilots went to work for below legacy rates? How about not capitalized enough, lousy equipment, legacies slapping them down.
The jumpseat issue is going to prevent someone from taking a "fair" paying job at a startup that might end up like SWA? Keep dreaming. Again, let the poor guy ride your jumpseat, and if you think, educate him what terrific benefits you have with your union. If you truely care about getting everyone on the same page.
The jumpseat issue is going to prevent someone from taking a "fair" paying job at a startup that might end up like SWA? Keep dreaming. Again, let the poor guy ride your jumpseat, and if you think, educate him what terrific benefits you have with your union. If you truely care about getting everyone on the same page.
I'm not advocating union or non union I'm advocating pay and work rules. ie low cost carriers and now ultra low cost carriers which have never raised the bar only lowered it from everything that I've seen.
by the way I've talked to some jetblue pilots who are friends and they said they would not have applied if they couldn't jumpseat because they weren't moving to NYC for those rates. quality of life issues.
I definately don't see VA's pay and especially the FO's as being fair, not for what we do and what it takes to get here.
03-28-2007, 01:16 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
[QUOTE=org1;140532]
actually slaping someone, no, I don't believe in it but sometimes words don't work either. I do however hold people accountable for their actions and I don't think withholding the jumpseat is a slap, it's more like a yell.
by the way, why is it a slap in the face to not allow VA or skybus a ride to work when they are directly trying to undercut me and don't have any current pilots. isn't that a slap in my face when they ask for the ride to work to directly uncut me. as we've recently seen all of the legacies have fallen back to the low cost carrier scale and not the other way around. so who's jerking who around here. still waiting for that low cost carrier to raise the bar. it might happen with southwest this time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
If I lose my job in this industry I'm probably done because you really can't start over with the FO payscales and the current work rules that are out their if you have a family. just ask skyhigh.
sometimes you need to slap them and say "wake up" or "snap out of it".
QUOTE]
BS. You expect somebody to pass on a job because you and Greenface are offended? You gotta be kidding. You must have a lot of trouble fitting your ego's into a cockpit.
I see you didn't answer my question above: do you seriously think you can influence ANYONE by slapping them in the face, either figuratively or actually?
If you want to be a jerk to your fellow aviators, go ahead. But realize what goes around comes around. You might not think you'll ever be in the position of taking what you now think of as a sub standard job or losing everything you have, but maybe you will. If you are in that position, I guarantee all the chest thumping you're doing now will seem pretty thin when you consider the effect your decision has on your family and future.
I'm done with this. It's apparent that a huge majority of crewmembers are decent people that don't need to build their ego's by "slapping them to say wake up or snap out of it." That makes this whole discussion pointless.
QUOTE]
BS. You expect somebody to pass on a job because you and Greenface are offended? You gotta be kidding. You must have a lot of trouble fitting your ego's into a cockpit.
I see you didn't answer my question above: do you seriously think you can influence ANYONE by slapping them in the face, either figuratively or actually?
If you want to be a jerk to your fellow aviators, go ahead. But realize what goes around comes around. You might not think you'll ever be in the position of taking what you now think of as a sub standard job or losing everything you have, but maybe you will. If you are in that position, I guarantee all the chest thumping you're doing now will seem pretty thin when you consider the effect your decision has on your family and future.
I'm done with this. It's apparent that a huge majority of crewmembers are decent people that don't need to build their ego's by "slapping them to say wake up or snap out of it." That makes this whole discussion pointless.
actually slaping someone, no, I don't believe in it but sometimes words don't work either. I do however hold people accountable for their actions and I don't think withholding the jumpseat is a slap, it's more like a yell.
by the way, why is it a slap in the face to not allow VA or skybus a ride to work when they are directly trying to undercut me and don't have any current pilots. isn't that a slap in my face when they ask for the ride to work to directly uncut me. as we've recently seen all of the legacies have fallen back to the low cost carrier scale and not the other way around. so who's jerking who around here. still waiting for that low cost carrier to raise the bar. it might happen with southwest this time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
If I lose my job in this industry I'm probably done because you really can't start over with the FO payscales and the current work rules that are out their if you have a family. just ask skyhigh.
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