Jump Seat as a Political Tool
03-25-2007, 06:15 PM
#41
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Position: B744, laying down, in the bunk.
Posts: 223
It's not a one-way street, hence the word "reciprocal".
But I am sure your approach will work in eliminating these companies from finding pilots and therefore not "under-cut" your company....NOT!!!!!
How the h@ll is a start-up company going to be unionized?
03-25-2007, 06:26 PM
#42
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Passed out in my hammock
Posts: 299
So the jumpseat agreement between the 2 companies goes out the window in your world. You are doing a dis-servicing to your fellow pilots (at where ever the h#ll you work) with that approach. You seem to believe that nobody at your company ever "need" to catch a ride with these other "non-union" folks.
It's not a one-way street, hence the word "reciprocal".
But I am sure your approach will work in eliminating these companies from finding pilots and therefore not "under-cut" your company....NOT!!!!!
How the h@ll is a start-up company going to be unionized?
It's not a one-way street, hence the word "reciprocal".
But I am sure your approach will work in eliminating these companies from finding pilots and therefore not "under-cut" your company....NOT!!!!!
How the h@ll is a start-up company going to be unionized?
03-25-2007, 09:28 PM
#43
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: B744, laying down, in the bunk.
Posts: 223
Velocipede may not wish to jumpseat on us, but some other ALASKA AIR folks might. How would they feel if they are denied a jumpseat because one particular Alaska pilot will not reciprocate the CASS agreement? Tell yourself whatever you want but 'C' still stands for cockpit and we all rely on each other to get to work.
The more sensible AS pilots need to take him behind the hangar and straighten him out real good.
03-26-2007, 01:01 AM
#44
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Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
And let me reiterate that the premise of this whole thread is flawed. When I deny a B6, VA or Skybus pilot a jumpseat ride, it isn't to make a "political" statement. It is simply that non-Union pilots should not ask for nor be granted privileges that are UNION benefits.
http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/A...3052&Tabid=256
Here's a snippet from the end of the article:
Rumors have been circulating about some ALPA pilots
refusing to allow jumpseaters from select non-ALPA and
low-cost airlines. Please do not let politics into the
jumpseat. While you might feel good about having denied
a jumpseater from a non-ALPA or low-cost airline,
your ALPA brothers and sisters might be denied a muchneeded
jumpseat on one of those airlines while commuting
to or from their base. Your actions can have implications
far beyond the immediate situation. Also, ALPA’s
long-term goal is to represent the entire airline piloting
profession—and that means every one of us is a field organizer
for our union. A jumpseat is one more opportunity
to educate and influence our non-ALPA brothers and
sisters.
Sounds like ALPA considers it a political statement as well as being harmful to the profession.
And I have to ask. Do you really deny JS to the poor Grant Aviation or other Alaskan company pilot when they operate in an area where there isn't even a union airline in the bunch? Are you going to take it out on the guy in a C-207 who most likely just hopes that some day he can make it to a union job?
Last edited by Baradium; 03-26-2007 at 01:07 AM.
03-26-2007, 06:58 AM
#45
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,995
And let me reiterate that the premise of this whole thread is flawed. When I deny a B6, VA or Skybus pilot a jumpseat ride, it isn't to make a "political" statement. It is simply that non-Union pilots should not ask for nor be granted privileges that are UNION benefits.
When you deny these poor souls a ride on your aircraft, do you personally give them your name or business card and explain your convictions about non-union airlines, regardless of your company’s policies?
I’m sure they would like to bring your issues to the attention of their chief pilots and jump seat committees. I would hate to think that you as a captain would leave the ill deed up to your first officer.
03-26-2007, 07:32 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: B777 Left
Posts: 736
I’m curious to know if your chief pilot approves of your decision to violate current company policies and jump seat agreements with non-union carriers by going into business for yourself, by denying the jump seat to pilots from other non-union airlines?
When you deny these poor souls a ride on your aircraft, do you personally give them your name or business card and explain your convictions about non-union airlines, regardless of your company’s policies?
I’m sure they would like to bring your issues to the attention of their chief pilots and jump seat committees. I would hate to think that you as a captain would leave the ill deed up to your first officer.
When you deny these poor souls a ride on your aircraft, do you personally give them your name or business card and explain your convictions about non-union airlines, regardless of your company’s policies?
I’m sure they would like to bring your issues to the attention of their chief pilots and jump seat committees. I would hate to think that you as a captain would leave the ill deed up to your first officer.
But he is afraid to standup and admit to what airline he flies for, because he does not want to subject himself to his Professional Standards Committee and the scrutiny of his fellow pilots when they are denied JS on VA, JB, SB. Yes it is his perogitive to deny the js, no one is denying that. But actions have consequences, and more immediately, the consequences will be to his fellow pilots, than whether or not these carriers unionize. Pal, it's not YOUR jumpseat. Take a look at Australia, they allow wives and family on the jumpseat. Now that's "your" jumpseat. You still have to abide by the rules at hand. Do you deny a FAA inspector, LCA, CP the jumpseat. Oh wait, that's in context of doing a job on the a/c. So it really isn't "your" jumpseat. Well I guess you could deny them and you would do that flight with an empty js, but I would suspect there might be ramifications in your decision.
So on one hand it's, undercutting "my" contract, and on the other hand it's, union, union. Well there are a lot of union carriers undercutting your contract. Allow them the JS?
So carry on. But don't hide behind these anonymous web boards with your rantings if you're are not willing to stand up for your convictions, and face your own pilots with your decisions, that will affect them. Admit your airline, anything less is cowardly.
You eventually will be outed by your own brethren.
03-26-2007, 08:00 AM
#48
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,995
VP's green face says it all... an it ain't from envy. I can't believe he works for Alaska unless he's their mascot. They are some of the most gracious guys to jump seat with.
03-26-2007, 08:39 AM
#49
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Wrong. While that's the way it's supposed to work, while negotiations were in progress at Emery in 1999 or so, the ALPA leadership interjected itself into meetings with the arbitrator and the company. In at least one case, our negotiators weren't even present. A lawsuit is still ongoing over that.
ALPA provides many valuable services and CAN be an asset to a pilot group....but don't trust them to automatically do what's best for you. It's all about money.
To get back on the subject: I'm gratified to see you're in the minority. A few guys like you could set the union movement back by decades. You might feel like a real stud to throw somebody off the jumpseat, but all you're doing is creating ill will and possibly costing your fellow crewmembers a ride home some day. I suspect you'd have an interesting conversation after your name came up when one of your guys was denied the seat on a non union airplane.
ALPA provides many valuable services and CAN be an asset to a pilot group....but don't trust them to automatically do what's best for you. It's all about money.
To get back on the subject: I'm gratified to see you're in the minority. A few guys like you could set the union movement back by decades. You might feel like a real stud to throw somebody off the jumpseat, but all you're doing is creating ill will and possibly costing your fellow crewmembers a ride home some day. I suspect you'd have an interesting conversation after your name came up when one of your guys was denied the seat on a non union airplane.
03-26-2007, 09:02 AM
#50
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
no but they might think twice about going to VA if they can't jumpseat on any ALPA carrier and would most likely be forced to live in SF. we all know what kind of life they will have with those rates, especially the FO's.
I've grown tired of hearing jetblue guys in my jumpseat say that they don't care about pay because the live in grand rapids mi. where the cost of living is low and that we should get used to the new pay scales.
all of these low cost carriers don't want to compete on an even playing field. they want to compete by having a competive advantage by keeping pay low.
what other union says that it is completely ok to undercut us and oh by the way we'll even help you do it by getting you to work. please...
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