JetBlue EMB190 arrival
09-14-2005, 06:56 PM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot
You pro-union guys really need to take a step back and stop smoking crack. In my experience unions have been pretty bad. In 1989 I helped to vote ALPA into existance at a regional airline in California. Until the union was voted in we were doing pretty well. Good schedules and good work rules. As soon as it was voted in we started getting shafted big time. Mesa bought that airline and replaced all their flying with their own non-union flying over the following years until one day, WestAir ceased to exist.
Later I went to a nice major airline job with an ALPA carrier. One year and eight months later I was furloughed. While I was on furlough, for eight years, the senior pilots on the 767 flew 10 hours of overtime every month. The union did nothing. The union also did nothing to help me get an interview at any other ALPA airline. The union also stopped the company from getting a lucrative route to Tokyo that was their's for the taking. They had some stupid reason for their actions, but it certainly wasn't in the junior pilot's interest. So I went back to said company after 8 years and then September 11th happened. The union ( MEC ) voted to terminate my pension plan. I didn't even get a vote because I was furloughed again.
Union's are no panacea. The jetBlue guys have a good thing going. Why ruin it with a union, especially ALPA.
Mind you union's do have their usefulness. They are very good at Aeromedical representation and representation in the event of an accident or incident, but as a collective bargaining entity they are crap.
The JB guys should keep working towards a good relationship with Dave and Dave and keep hostility out of the picture. Their best hope is to keep good relations with management, not confrontational relations.
TP
Later I went to a nice major airline job with an ALPA carrier. One year and eight months later I was furloughed. While I was on furlough, for eight years, the senior pilots on the 767 flew 10 hours of overtime every month. The union did nothing. The union also did nothing to help me get an interview at any other ALPA airline. The union also stopped the company from getting a lucrative route to Tokyo that was their's for the taking. They had some stupid reason for their actions, but it certainly wasn't in the junior pilot's interest. So I went back to said company after 8 years and then September 11th happened. The union ( MEC ) voted to terminate my pension plan. I didn't even get a vote because I was furloughed again.
Union's are no panacea. The jetBlue guys have a good thing going. Why ruin it with a union, especially ALPA.
Mind you union's do have their usefulness. They are very good at Aeromedical representation and representation in the event of an accident or incident, but as a collective bargaining entity they are crap.
The JB guys should keep working towards a good relationship with Dave and Dave and keep hostility out of the picture. Their best hope is to keep good relations with management, not confrontational relations.
TP
The senior guys at SWA say DN is a prick and his true colors will emerge when the going gets tough with cash. Only time will tell.
But again, unions are very useful when the airline is doing well financially. When they are going under there isn't much hope either way, union or no union.
09-15-2005, 07:20 AM
#22
Atmospheric Penetrator
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 244
Would it be reasonable to assume that the rates are low because JB is the launch customer for the aircraft and there is a high level of risk associated with new aircraft in terms of operating costs, unforseen mx issues, passenger apporval etc.? I think an eventual $10/hr across the board on the pay scale would be fair... maybe after 1.5-2 years?
Mike
Mike
09-15-2005, 08:05 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: sitting at computer keyboard
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by SWAcapt
Two years at SWA (1974). I think we had 7 airplanes.
From the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association history:
Company's first flight: June 18, 1971
SWAPA officially recoginzed: March 27, 1978
At the time of organization there were 113 pilots.
During 1978 Southwest Airlines acquired its 13th B737-200 aircraft and served 10 cities, all within the state of Texas.
-------------------------------------
The Wright Amendment is Wrong!
www.SetLoveFree.com
Last edited by corl737; 09-15-2005 at 08:12 AM. Reason: correct hyperlinks
09-15-2005, 03:23 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: B737, Capt.
Posts: 384
Originally Posted by corl737
From the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association history:
Company's first flight: June 18, 1971
SWAPA officially recoginzed: March 27, 1978
At the time of organization there were 113 pilots.
During 1978 Southwest Airlines acquired its 13th B737-200 aircraft and served 10 cities, all within the state of Texas.
-------------------------------------
The Wright Amendment is Wrong!
www.SetLoveFree.com
Company's first flight: June 18, 1971
SWAPA officially recoginzed: March 27, 1978
At the time of organization there were 113 pilots.
During 1978 Southwest Airlines acquired its 13th B737-200 aircraft and served 10 cities, all within the state of Texas.
-------------------------------------
The Wright Amendment is Wrong!
www.SetLoveFree.com
Last edited by SWAcapt; 09-15-2005 at 03:34 PM.
09-15-2005, 04:06 PM
#25
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by DH2WN
The senior guys at SWA say DN is a prick and his true colors will emerge when the going gets tough with cash. Only time will tell.
But again, unions are very useful when the airline is doing well financially. When they are going under there isn't much hope either way, union or no union.
But again, unions are very useful when the airline is doing well financially. When they are going under there isn't much hope either way, union or no union.
I know for a fact that he made sure that his Morris Air pilots were taken care of. Two (or more) of "those guys" left SW later on and are now flying for JB. That was over 11 years ago remember. David had a 5 year no compete clause before starting JB and that was almost six years ago.
But like you said, time will tell
09-15-2005, 05:08 PM
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by jetblue320
And these "senior guys" at SW made this assumption that he was a prick from what exposure? The man (DN) worked at SW for a total of 6 months and he was in the sales department or something like that.
I know for a fact that he made sure that his Morris Air pilots were taken care of. Two (or more) of "those guys" left SW later on and are now flying for JB. That was over 11 years ago remember. David had a 5 year no compete clause before starting JB and that was almost six years ago.
But like you said, time will tell
I know for a fact that he made sure that his Morris Air pilots were taken care of. Two (or more) of "those guys" left SW later on and are now flying for JB. That was over 11 years ago remember. David had a 5 year no compete clause before starting JB and that was almost six years ago.
But like you said, time will tell
09-15-2005, 06:31 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by DH2WN
I am just throwing a log onto the fire. I hope DN continues to treat you guys well. I'm just curious what's going to happen at the 5 year point. You only have rates and rules for 5 years, right? At some point it's only natural for employees to rightfully deserve pay increases and work rule changes as a company matures. I'm curious to see how DN handles it.
09-16-2005, 09:35 AM
#28
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by DH2WN
I am just throwing a log onto the fire. I hope DN continues to treat you guys well. I'm just curious what's going to happen at the 5 year point. You only have rates and rules for 5 years, right? At some point it's only natural for employees to rightfully deserve pay increases and work rule changes as a company matures. I'm curious to see how DN handles it.
I think my point was (and I guess I didn't make it) is that whether or not DN is a "prick" has really nothing to do with it. Although he is the CEO, his input to our pay and work rules is minimal at best. There are many others that have more "say so" in any future increases or changes in rules. Not saying that he isn't part of the gang, but just a lot less than most outsiders think.
C yaaaa
09-17-2005, 04:47 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by B6Guy
Once the E190 is established and profitable the pay rates will go up, like they did for the A320.
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I do agree to stay away from ALPA. If I could get out and save my due money, I would.
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