SWAcapt

Two years at SWA (1973). I think we had 7 airplanes.

DH2WN

Unions can't help anyone who is working for a failing company. However, a company that is making money they can. The B6 rates on the RJ are atrocious by commuter standards and I have a feeling they pilots had zero say in what they will be.

DH2WN

I believe Herb encouraged them too as stated in the book "nuts"

FlightDirectorOff

So I have a question. Who will Scab Blue pilots turn to when the time comes to negoitiate for real wages?

Typhoonpilot

You pro-union guys really need to take a step back and stop smoking crack. In my experience unions have been pretty bad. In 1989 I helped to vote ALPA into existance at a regional airline in California. Until the union was voted in we were doing pretty well. Good schedules and good work rules. As soon as it was voted in we started getting shafted big time. Mesa bought that airline and replaced all their flying with their own non-union flying over the following years until one day, WestAir ceased to exist.

Later I went to a nice major airline job with an ALPA carrier. One year and eight months later I was furloughed. While I was on furlough, for eight years, the senior pilots on the 767 flew 10 hours of overtime every month. The union did nothing. The union also did nothing to help me get an interview at any other ALPA airline. The union also stopped the company from getting a lucrative route to Tokyo that was their's for the taking. They had some stupid reason for their actions, but it certainly wasn't in the junior pilot's interest. So I went back to said company after 8 years and then September 11th happened. The union ( MEC ) voted to terminate my pension plan. I didn't even get a vote because I was furloughed again.

Union's are no panacea. The jetBlue guys have a good thing going. Why ruin it with a union, especially ALPA.

Mind you union's do have their usefulness. They are very good at Aeromedical representation and representation in the event of an accident or incident, but as a collective bargaining entity they are crap.

The JB guys should keep working towards a good relationship with Dave and Dave and keep hostility out of the picture. Their best hope is to keep good relations with management, not confrontational relations.


TP

FurloughedAgain

I could care less whether they're union or not.

What they need to do is go get the book rates for:
Delta 737-200
Southwest 737-200
Northwest DC9-10/-30
AirTran B717
Frontier A318

average all of those ~100 seat payrates and come up with something that is realistic for a profitable, growing, major airline.

If Blue is as good a place as people say it is, then Dave will be open to a FAIR payscale for his new airplanes.

2 BLUE

Why do you care? After all, we are just scabs.

SWAcapt

[QUOTE=FurloughedAgain]I could care less whether they're union or not.

What they need to do is go get the book rates for:
Delta 737-200
Southwest 737-200
Northwest DC9-10/-30
AirTran B717
Frontier A318
QUOTE]

SWA does not fly the 737-200. We receive the same pay for whatever shows up at the gate. Our -500's hold 122 seats and our -300's and -700's hold 137 seats. When we did have -200's(122 seats) they paid the same also. Hope this helps with your computations.

Typhoonpilot wrote;
Union's are no panacea. The jetBlue guys have a good thing going. Why ruin it with a union, especially ALPA.

I would agree, stay away from ALPA. ALPA is in business for ALPA. When the time is right, start an in-house independant union.

B6Guy

FurloughedAgain,
[quote] I could care less whether they're union or not.

What they need to do is go get the book rates for:
Delta 737-200
Southwest 737-200
Northwest DC9-10/-30
AirTran B717
Frontier A318

average all of those ~100 seat payrates and come up with something that is realistic for a profitable, growing, major airline.

FurloughedAgain:

So just how many of the airlines in this list are profitable?? and Jetblue should use their rates and follow in their shoes??? No logic here.

I have faith that JetBlue will adjust the rates when the competing BK majors stop lowering the bar on ticket prices [and cutting their employee pay to cover the losses]. Once the E190 is established and profitable the pay rates will go up, like they did for the A320. Once the ticket prices can rise to cover fuel and a pay raise, the raise will come, or else we'll get it in the form of profit sharing, but a pay raise for the 190 pilots would be my vote.


.

2 BLUE

Is this like the Kelly Blue Book? Where do I pick one up?

If you want to start a real national pilot's union you would get 100% backing. Until then, stirring this pot has become meaningless.