RedeyeAV8r

I think it is safe to say the Pilots have already had "Enough". With current anit-labor administration , the MGT's can void contracts and impose new working conditions, yet the labor groups are not allowed to strike.

I don't see things getting better for the American Worker side under those circumstances.

Gunter

It will negate the need for Virgin USA to get off the ground. Virgin and Ryan Air will just expand to America. And that's just the competition from Europe. I don't know if the Asian, South American or Mexican carriers will expand. I could see Copa expanding to destinations North from Miami. Emirates could do some damage too.

They will then proceed to gut whoever goes up against them without a cost or network driven advantage. Oddly, I see the LCCs most at risk. The legacies have regionals to help prop them up at the hubs. The hub and spoke has some disadvantages, but there are a number of passengers from small markets that will always use them. The legacies are increasingly using regionals for international flying and that will protect flying in the America's...For a time.

captjns

I agree about the labor situation in the US.

I don't think the pilot group is quite at the critical mass point yet. Going back to work for the carrier that put them on the street??? that took their retirement??? that cut their pay??? demanding more work for lower wages??? Reduced rest??? lower quality hotels???

Those who had enough are either out of the business... lucky to get on with UPS, FED EX, or SWS... or have even gone to the extreme to become an expat for a foreign carrier to in order to maintain their income levels with the reduced pensions that some have been able to recover.

And yet the hits keep coming... Comair pilots agreed by more than a 2-to-1 margin Friday to accept wage cuts and other concessions the Delta Air Lines Inc. subsidiary said it needs to stay competitive and emerge from bankruptcy.

A recorded message by the Air Line Pilots Association said that of those voting, 770, or 69 percent, voted to accept the settlement, with 350, or 31 percent, against. The airline has nearly 1,500 pilots.

R1200RT

Yea the airlines (large and small) needed something to keep the downward spiral going. When your house fire is finally going out here comes some gasoline. When it's good for passengers you can bet it is never good for pilots!

NoWake200

I have you agree with you.

fireman0174

I hope I'm not taking your post out of context, nor your true meaning, but the just agreed upon concessionary contract by the Comair pilots refutes the above.

And I'm not demeaning the Comair pilots by that, either. Until all AIRLINE pilots are on the same page with a unified and across the board contract, or at least a contract minimum, managements will indeed have continued sucess with their goal of reduced renumeration for airline pilots.

A far easier solution to describe than to define and implement as long as there are the have and have-nots.

JMT21

I'm not sure you read the article, but I found this of interest:

"The commission says the deal could generate 26 million additional trans- Atlantic passengers over the next five years, generating up to €12 billion, or $15.8 billion, in economic benefits, and creating a combined 80,000 new jobs on both sides of the Atlantic."

Almost $16 billon up for grabs over next five years, that sounds just horrible for U.S. Carriers. Not to mention the 80k new jobs that will be created (I would imagine it's about 40k in the U.S.); this dosen't sound like too bad of a deal to me.

Another couple of things from the article:

"But Morris said an accord would most likely increase the level of service between major American cities and smaller, secondary European destinations — for example, Washington to Düsseldorf."

"It could also lure more traffic to countries like Italy, Morris said, "which haven't yet reached their full potential" because of the dominance of international routes by national carriers."

Both of you can rest easy knowing congress (i.e. democrats) have to approve this thing before it becomes a reality. Who are you gonna blame then?

NGINEWHOISWHAT

AMEN. I for one am tired of the arrogance of the Bush administration shoving policies down our throats just because Bush thinks it is best. I personally don't believe any policy implemented by this administration has helped the American people. I'm sure someone will be able to think of one or two, and probably blame previous democratic teams, but THIS administration has single-handedly done more to destroy the American middle-class than any other president in recent times. We need to really be writing our congressmen and women in an attempt to stop this.

I personally believe Bush hates pilots and was made fun of at his guard unit. I believe he was grounded because he couldn't fly and is now attacking pilots. I can't see any other reason for him to sell us out in the name of "competition." It was the same with U.S. steel workers and yes I'm going off "half cocked." It's my key board and I can type whatever I want.

He opened the door to cabotage through Alaska for asian cargo carriers and will not stop until you the foreign carriers dominate American skies. Bush will not be satisfied until 777 captains are making less than 100K per year. If he had his way, he'd try to get a flat 30K across the board for every pilot. He keeps trying to push his will on the American people, and refuses to listen to anyone.

We have seen the Bush administration at work. Bush carefully chose his staff. Get out of line and don't like his way of thinking? No problem, replace them with someone else who does think more like W. It's sad, people. It's really, really sad. __________________________________

The commission says the deal could generate 26 million additional trans- Atlantic passengers over the next five years, generating up to €12 billion, or $15.8 billion, in economic benefits, and creating a combined 80,000 new jobs on both
__________________________________

I'm guessing that most of this 15.8 Billon will be taken out of pilot's pockets.

__________________________________
The Bush administration tried for more than a year to persuade Congress to approve such changes — which limit equity ownership by foreign airlines in U.S. carriers to 25 percent of the voting stock — but abandoned the effort in December after fierce opposition from labor unions and several U.S. airlines.
__________________________________

Let's hope we can Congress keeps looking out for the us on this one.
__________________________________
The commission said the draft agreement would grant a number of other new rights to EU carriers, including the right to fly from the United States to non-EU countries and to have access to the "Fly America" program for the transport of passengers and cargo financed by the U.S. government
__________________________________

I heard of Air America, but what is Fly America? We use our Tax money to hire foreign airlines to haul our goods and people??? I'm opening my self up to correction and ridicule with this post. Somebody make me understand the benefits of this new policy. Thanks in advance.

Tom

NGINEWHOISWHAT

Yeah, we've seen these types of proposed "synergies" and "fuzzy math" before. It never quite works out the way it is proposed to. 40K new American Jobs ... like the new jobs created by Nissan and Hyundai paying half of what Detroit auto makers once paid, yet charging the same for vehicle? Yeah, I'm SURE this 16 Billion will directly benefit the American worker.


We are going to blame you. Just kidding. I don't believe this policy is good for the American worker. Things never pan out the way Washingtons says it will except for a few elect rich. Halliburton and the lack of "competition" and no-bid contracts is a perfect example. Once again, I'm not trying to flame, but rather understand how this can benefit us. I just don't see it, but I am open to new views.

Tom

Busboy

...generate 26 million additional trans-atlantic passengers over the next 5 years...

Huh?

How low are the fares going to have to go to generate over 14,000 additional trans-atlantic passengers, every day, for the next 5 years? Who are these passengers? And, why do they all of a sudden need to fly to Europe? What, are they coming by automobile or bus, now?

This is not good for current U.S. airline employees.