TonyC

Your message is a lie, a fabrication of your imagination used to rationalize your choice to quit.

The sad part is you believe your own lie.






.

kevbo

His bad experience was as real as mine and many others. It appears that the industry has bottomed and there is blue sky ahead. There won't be so much traffic here when everyone is upgrading and opening slots for new guys to fill. Everything will be wonderful, until cabotage is finally implemented.

airjamaica

I just joined APC as I've only been a spectator over the last decade, hoping to make the right move based on the comments posted in the forum.

Most postings on this forum over the last decade have been 80% complaints / 20% positive. I've sat on the sidelines and worked as an insurance agent followed by construction worker, and month after month I've read complaint after complaint regarding the crash pads, furloughs, 10 year upgrades at regionals, 20 year upgrades at the majors, 16 hour work days, unions, ramon noodles, food stamps, fatigue, sweaty wrinkled uniforms and the list goes on.

While sitting on the sidelines I've been an insurance agent making 30k on average as I've always hated Sales...

Insurance rates soared, lowered commissions year after year So.. it's been a struggle.




My father retired at 60 years old in 2005 as a USAirways captain one year before the age 60 rule got bumped up to age 65.

He retired without a pension (chapter 11) and spent the little he had on a 747 type rating after AeroService promised him a job placement. He got scammed.

His 2nd wife later divorced him and took him to the cleaners. Forcing him to sell his properties and liquidate his savings.

His 3rd wife supported him financially. He was then diagnosed w/ diabetes and died.

It was sad to witness a bird with "broken wings."


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I was urged by my father before he died to get my CPL and to stop joy riding with a PPL. We were on the verge of bankruptcy.

(Despite the fact that I met a few drunk co-pilots who looked at me square in the eye and said, "go become a rock star, dont do this sht are you crazy?)"

I had been joy riding in the carribean in our 152 and my friend's AirCam since I was 13 years old.

2700 tt - 600 me - C152 / Seneca / AirCam (Twin light sport)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timeline

1)November 2007
Got my CPL

2)February 2008
AeroService 737 300 type rating course hoping it would make me marketable for a major.
On test day I found out I wasn't qualified because I took my CPL in a Single Engine. The sales rep said he didn't notice. My mistake.
AeroService (now pan am academy) said I could come back later to finishup. I came back, and the new staff looked at me like I had 3 heads.
$7000 dollars, Gone.

I then started drinking, smoking cigarettes, dated a beautiful stripper who apparently was prescribed 3 pill bottles for bipolarism, which she never consumed. That explained all the random unmerited temper tantrums and suspicions that I was cheating while at work.
Bigger mistake on my part.

3) September 2008.
I finally got my CPL in Multi engine rating in Sept of 2008. Just in time for the 2008 Stockmarket /Economic crash/ mortgage crisis.

4) December 2008
I interviewed with Colgan - they told me I would upgrade within 6 months. I remember getting cold feet from speaking w/ one of the owners of Colgan at the time, and I thought to myself... Do I want to fly in bad weather with half asleep 23 year old Captains? I was always told good pilots are the product of flying with good captains.

5) January 2009
Applied at Great Lakes and received a rejection letter that they had better qualified applicants.

6) February 2009
Colgan Crash - No De-icing - Captain pulls flight controls full aft during a stall warner? I would have been terrified in the right seat.

7) 2010
Took ATP written - applied at Piedmont -
Interviewed at Piedmont - Failed written test by one question. Was told to reapply in 6 months. I came back home and got a job selling aircraft parts .

8) April 2012 -
Interviewed at Silver airways - The day after colgan goes under.
Passed written - passed sim - my sim lady had a black eye....
HR told me to be patient for 3 consecutive months - as they hired Colgan guys left and right.

9) 2012-2013-2014 - Tossed one of my logbooks in a dumpster, couldn't find my other logbook which I still have, and tossed my CPL license
in a trash can out of frustration.
I partnered up with a high school friend who was working with investors "rehabbing and flipping houses"
Had some good months, but had more Bad months then good. Thin margins. Alot of competition.


10) 2015

Bought a van - generator - vacuum - pressure cleaner - Started a mobile car detail business. I've never made less than 500 in a week. Until Rainy Season Hit in August.
Occasional T-Storms almost every day till PRESENT.

Most of my time has been spent reading the forum till my eyes are burning and bloodshot, trying to decipher whether I will be stuck earning 300 a week for the next 12 years or furloughed.
I've always loved flying. But I've never loved being broke. Or being a corporate Slave. I also despise boredom.
How exciting can it be at FL30 on autopilot on the 3rd trip of the day pushing buttons and twisting knobs?
Well... I'm sure it beats sitting at home reading forums because that's what i'm doing... It does look like the rainy season in Miami is almost over.


Anyway - I've noticed that there are about 400 to 800 mandatory retirements per year at each major, from 2016 through 2020 according to Airline pilot central.

Based on My track record at obtaining a professional flying job has left me very skeptical about job security, layoffs and furloughs.
Plus the economic outlook for the US is not that great. AirFrance is laying off pilots, RAH's filing chapter 11.
I guess if we just keep printing more money for 2 more decades we'll be fine.

But with the advent of a "looming/current pilot shortage", (i.e. Supposed Silver airways flight cancellations due to staffing issues - RAH's staffing issues -
Positive movement from Regionals to Majors.... That has me wondering if I am about to miss this "window" of opportunity in the airline industry.
Or... based on my track record, is professional aviation just not for me. Maybe flying turbo prop cargo might provide a better thrill for me??

I'm open to hearing everyone's opinions.
You can tell me that i'm lazy, retarded, i'm not passionate, i'm a spoiled brat, I invite everyone's input.

Regardless, to all my fellow aviators - God bless you all. Wish you peace and prosperity.

JohnBurke

While strippers and vans and cleaning and flipping houses and so forth are entertaining, the only parts of your story related to aviation are few. You flew for fun in a family 152, and applied to a couple of airlines.

Your story sounds like a spiraling tragedy, but it's rehearsal of the same thing over and over. Even your father's story (2nd and 3rd marriages, etc) really have nothing to do with the industry. It sounds like a sad aviation tale, but it's just life.

I'm not sure what taking your commercial in a single has to do with the price of tea in China (or a type rating), but the majority of us took our checkrides in a single. Do you mean that you didn't hold a multi engine rating, but paid to do a type rating in a multi engine airplane?

It sounds like nearly all your flight experience has been "joyriding," which is something I'd refrain from telling employers in an interview, if I were in your shoes. Perhaps a good place to start is employment doing flying other than joyriding. Develop a flying work history.

What's going on at the majors is irrelevant right now for you. Focus on the market that's available to you. With your experience you won't be applying to or gaining employment at a major airline, but there are all kinds of other flying opportunities available, should you seek them.

You don't sound content with your present life, and sound like you want to pursue aviation. If that's the case, then pursue it.

airjamaica

Thank you John. That's what I needed to hear.

I mentioned retirements at the majors because this would signify movement at the regional level which has been close to non existent 2008 to 2014. Just wondering if this is a good time to get into the profession instead of leaving the profession which I havent even touched.... Or, you might say regardless of 1000s of mandatory retirements, there will always be an oversupply of pilots.

As far as the Type Rating. I had a CPL Instrument single engine only. Multi Engine Vfr only restriction. Most get their private, instrument, multi and commercial in that order right?

I did my private, Multi VFR, as I did not shoot an ILS approach in the multi because I didnt have my instrument. I then obtained my instrument and commercial in a single.

I will try and edit or rewrite the post, in retrospect i did over explain a little too much. I guess now i need to look for entry level jobs on the Low Time Thread.

JohnBurke

It sounds like aeroservice did let you down, as you could easily have put the multi on a commercial at the same time as the type rating. The kicker for you would have been whether you were had the skills and abilities to do the type rating, without the multi instrument experience. Generally training facilities aren't inclined to donate extra sim time if someone isn't up to speed on arrival. That may have been the issue.

You needn't edit or re-write. My point in observing the extraneous is that you shouldn't let your other setbacks influence an aviation decision. You've had a number of obstacles in your life, as have others around you, but many of those aren't related to aviation. It's easy to let it all snowball into one big obstacle, but the truth is that when you boil down your original comments, your setbacks were limited to a couple of interviews and a type rating that you may not have been ready for.

There are those who aren't meant to fly or meant for a career in aviation, but you've been flying since you were thirteen. It's not like you tried it one day and found it wasn't for you.

The early stages of a career in this business can be difficult. Lean.

At this point, you don't need flight time necessarily, but you do need a career anchor point. The regionals are hiring, but the regionals pay peanuts. You might start with whatever you can find. Pick up subscriptions to some of the job sites. Monitor trade a plane, etc. Get applications out. Get and stay current, and be up on charts, regulations, etc. Do some reading on interviewing and what's involved, and start reading up on others interview experiences at the companies with whom you're seeking employment.

You've already got insight into the industry so you won't be going in blind. Use that to your advantage.

bedrock

Wow, that is a rough time time. I suffered from 9/11/2001-2004 and I thought that was bad.

You didn't state whether you had a degree; without that you are going to have a hard time getting to the major's. Pay, as you may have noticed is increasing at the regionals. Some have agreements with various flight schools to help you get advanced CFI ratings also. The main problem with regionals is the constant whipsaw which seeks constant concessions--that seems to be losing steam, though they are still desperately trying!

Personally, I've been at the regional grind for 10 yrs and am fed up. Due to some health problems I may be calling it quits anyway. Of course airlines aren't the be-all, end all. There is Alaska and Forestry Svc flying which can be good gigs too, but this career, as you have experienced, requires a lot of sacrifice and for many of us it just isn't worth it anymore.

As an anecdote, I met a guy in his 50's, divorced, no family, living in Dubai, I think, whose whole life was flying and franking hoes. That end is not that uncommon.

HeavyDriver

United has relaxed this a bit...I know 3 guys without college who got picked up in the last 6 months...But...These pilots had a lot of experience and PIC flying big iron...

kevbo

I think he could find $300/wk worth of instructing work. It would be much more difficult to walk away from a $1000/wk job.

Stets656

I'm currently in flight training right now, I have my private already and I'm 18 years old at western Michigan flight school. My career choice is to be an airline pilot, CFI, cargo pilot, or whatever pilot job I find fitting for me in the future. However, I don't find myself very passionate about the whole aviation career. I had some fun with my private, I enjoy flying people around and stuff like that but I don't have some burning passion for aviation. More than anything I just want my career choice to work out. I look at the pros and I see, amazing career outlook, great travel benefits, long breaks off of work, decent to great salary. And then I look at the cons, maybe I don't like flying as much as the average pilot, low starting wages( doesn't really concern me), frequent flight checks, medical checks, long periods away from home(could be good), long hours on the job. I always hear people saying don't enter aviation unless you completely love it or you will hate your job. Is this really true? Will I work a miserable job the rest of my life? Or will I find a way to like it like mike Rowe said. If you experienced pilots were in my situation now, even with the great job outlook aviation has, would you recommend I stick with it or should I get out? I would just like some honest feedback, no smart ass comments please. I really need some advice right now. Thanks!