Don't Follow Your Passion
05-09-2015, 09:06 AM
#222
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,261
It doesn't sound as though you ever had much experience in the field of aviation, nor that your experience was very broad.
I have met a large number of very talented and very intelligent individuals who found themselves challenged in aviation; I claim to be neither. Never the less, I have undertaken some very technically challenging assignments and worked alongside many for whom completion would not have been possible (to say nothing of survival) were it not for some modicum of talent.
The relevance of the industry (aviation at large) outside the industry is quite clear, perhaps to most, but not to you.
It's well known today that most who earn a degree do not work in their field; many degrees aren't field-specific, anyway. Even in aviation, we have a lot of political science majors, psychology majors, etc. A degree in one discipline is as good as a degree in another and for many jobs, entirely irrelevant; it's the title and the paper that counts, rather than anything done to achieve it or particular direction or major. Accordingly, an aviation degree, or any degree earned by one in aviation, is as worthy as most other majors, outside of aviation, for a good share of the jobs one might wish to seek.
Explain to me how command of a two hundred million dollar airplane with millions of dollars in cargo or hundreds of lives or billions of dollars worth of lives at high speeds in complex airspace with the attendant planning and responsibility is seen as trivial. You don't strike me as one who has significant experience in aviation, neither outside aviation. Perhaps, if you think that aviation experience is irrelevant outside the industry, you've been unable to explain yourself or sell yourself, and you need some coaching or training.
Aviation experience may be used to show discipline, leadership, responsibility, integrity, and a number of other attributes. Few other professions involve such monitoring; one who comes from a flying background has been more vetted and tested and checked than the majority of people in the work place. From background checks to drug tests to line checks, checkrides, etc, the aviator today has a very well documented history to present to any employer.
There may be some of you, skyhigh, for example, who never achieved leadership positions and who quit, and granted such experience may not be particularly admirable or appreciated outside the industry. It appears from your comments that your own may be the case. You preach the same dying martyrdom story of skyhigh, as though you're the same person. Doom and gloom, a failed industry.
Your logic and message fails when you try to project those failings on others.
Last edited by BrandiNett; 05-15-2015 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Misquote corrected.
05-09-2015, 10:12 AM
#223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
It doesn't sound as though you ever had much experience in the field of aviation, nor that your experience was very broad.
I have met a large number of very talented and very intelligent individuals who found themselves challenged in aviation; I claim to be neither. Never the less, I have undertaken some very technically challenging assignments and worked alongside many for whom completion would not have been possible (to say nothing of survival) were it not for some modicum of talent.
The relevance of the industry (aviation at large) outside the industry is quite clear, perhaps to most, but not to you.
It's well known today that most who earn a degree do not work in their field; many degrees aren't field-specific, anyway. Even in aviation, we have a lot of political science majors, psychology majors, etc. A degree in one discipline is as good as a degree in another and for many jobs, entirely irrelevant; it's the title and the paper that counts, rather than anything done to achieve it or particular direction or major. Accordingly, an aviation degree, or any degree earned by one in aviation, is as worthy as most other majors, outside of aviation, for a good share of the jobs one might wish to seek.
Explain to me how command of a two hundred million dollar airplane with millions of dollars in cargo or hundreds of lives or billions of dollars worth of lives at high speeds in complex airspace with the attendant planning and responsibility is seen as trivial. You don't strike me as one who has significant experience in aviation, neither outside aviation. Perhaps, if you think that aviation experience is irrelevant outside the industry, you've been unable to explain yourself or sell yourself, and you need some coaching or training.
Aviation experience may be used to show discipline, leadership, responsibility, integrity, and a number of other attributes. Few other professions involve such monitoring; one who comes from a flying background has been more vetted and tested and checked than the majority of people in the work place. From background checks to drug tests to line checks, checkrides, etc, the aviator today has a very well documented history to present to any employer.
There may be some of you, skyhigh, for example, who never achieved leadership positions and who quit, and granted such experience may not be particularly admirable or appreciated outside the industry. It appears from your comments that your own may be the case. You preach the same dying martyrdom story of skyhigh, as though you're the same person. Doom and gloom, a failed industry.
Your logic and message fails when you try to project those failings on others.
Please edit your post #223, or contact a moderator or admin to do so. Your post mixes my username with a quote from kevbo (current post #221 as of 05/09/15).
05-09-2015, 10:19 AM
#224
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,261
05-09-2015, 08:41 PM
#225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
I certainly don't want drivel like that associated with my name on this forum.
Someone that would actually believe that quote sounds like a prson who went from flipping burgers in high school, to a Zero-to-Hero school, and into the right seat of an RJ being spoon fed everything with no real decision making under their belt or responsible for anything.
05-10-2015, 10:40 AM
#226
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: ERJ, CA
Posts: 718
[QUOTE=USMCFLYR;1875374]
This issue being discussed is that aviation skills are worthless outside of aviation.
Decision Making: Use good headwork, logical decision making, and sound judgment to solve problems.
Assertiveness: Actively participate and maintain a position until convinced by facts that other options are better.
Mission Analysis: Develop plans and contingency plans for missions, update.
Communication: Accurately receive and send information, commands, and feedback.
Leadership: Direct and coordinate activities of other crewmembers, encourage teamwork.
Adaptability: Alter a course of action to meet situational demands, anticipating changes.
Situational Awareness: Accurate perception of the factors affecting you, your crew, your aircraft, and your environment, both now and in the near future.
The skills listed, by themselves, won't be enough to get you a good paying job outside aviation. You still need to back them up with a degree in the right field like business or computer science and/or have some concrete experience or an IT skill set. They probably would be enough to get you into a mgmt. trainee program in retail some where.
This issue being discussed is that aviation skills are worthless outside of aviation.
Assertiveness: Actively participate and maintain a position until convinced by facts that other options are better.
Mission Analysis: Develop plans and contingency plans for missions, update.
Communication: Accurately receive and send information, commands, and feedback.
Leadership: Direct and coordinate activities of other crewmembers, encourage teamwork.
Adaptability: Alter a course of action to meet situational demands, anticipating changes.
Situational Awareness: Accurate perception of the factors affecting you, your crew, your aircraft, and your environment, both now and in the near future.
The skills listed, by themselves, won't be enough to get you a good paying job outside aviation. You still need to back them up with a degree in the right field like business or computer science and/or have some concrete experience or an IT skill set. They probably would be enough to get you into a mgmt. trainee program in retail some where.
05-10-2015, 11:34 AM
#227
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
[QUOTE=bedrock;1877303]
Decision Making: Use good headwork, logical decision making, and sound judgment to solve problems.
Assertiveness: Actively participate and maintain a position until convinced by facts that other options are better.
Mission Analysis: Develop plans and contingency plans for missions, update.
Communication: Accurately receive and send information, commands, and feedback.
Leadership: Direct and coordinate activities of other crewmembers, encourage teamwork.
Adaptability: Alter a course of action to meet situational demands, anticipating changes.
Situational Awareness: Accurate perception of the factors affecting you, your crew, your aircraft, and your environment, both now and in the near future.
The skills listed, by themselves, won't be enough to get you a good paying job outside aviation. You still need to back them up with a degree in the right field like business or computer science and/or have some concrete experience or an IT skill set. They probably would be enough to get you into a mgmt. trainee program in retail some where.
Those skills are all desired in any profession or business.
McDonalds would even be looking for those skills.
You take the skills learned in aviation and adapt them to other fields.
Then you sell it to the employer.
Depending on the job you want - a degree is certainly not required.
Aviation can give that concrete experience base for other employment opportunities.
If you have the above skills from aviation then you can do other jobs and employers are looking for employees like you.
If you do not have those skills from aviation - you should probably leave aviation in the first place - at least professional aviation.
Decision Making: Use good headwork, logical decision making, and sound judgment to solve problems.
Assertiveness: Actively participate and maintain a position until convinced by facts that other options are better.
Mission Analysis: Develop plans and contingency plans for missions, update.
Communication: Accurately receive and send information, commands, and feedback.
Leadership: Direct and coordinate activities of other crewmembers, encourage teamwork.
Adaptability: Alter a course of action to meet situational demands, anticipating changes.
Situational Awareness: Accurate perception of the factors affecting you, your crew, your aircraft, and your environment, both now and in the near future.
The skills listed, by themselves, won't be enough to get you a good paying job outside aviation. You still need to back them up with a degree in the right field like business or computer science and/or have some concrete experience or an IT skill set. They probably would be enough to get you into a mgmt. trainee program in retail some where.
McDonalds would even be looking for those skills.
You take the skills learned in aviation and adapt them to other fields.
Then you sell it to the employer.
Depending on the job you want - a degree is certainly not required.
Aviation can give that concrete experience base for other employment opportunities.
If you have the above skills from aviation then you can do other jobs and employers are looking for employees like you.
If you do not have those skills from aviation - you should probably leave aviation in the first place - at least professional aviation.
05-10-2015, 11:53 AM
#228
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: ERJ, CA
Posts: 718
[QUOTE=USMCFLYR;1877318]
Please re-read what I posted, I'm not disagreeing with you, but what I am saying is those aviation skills and education are not enough to replace a good paying pilot job. You will need to have some other business or concrete experience and/or skill. If you are applying at a somewhat entry-level position, then yes, those aviation skills will make you more attractive.
Those skills are all desired in any profession or business.
McDonalds would even be looking for those skills.
You take the skills learned in aviation and adapt them to other fields.
Then you sell it to the employer.
Depending on the job you want - a degree is certainly not required.
Aviation can give that concrete experience base for other employment opportunities.
If you have the above skills from aviation then you can do other jobs and employers are looking for employees like you.
If you do not have those skills from aviation - you should probably leave aviation in the first place - at least professional aviation.
McDonalds would even be looking for those skills.
You take the skills learned in aviation and adapt them to other fields.
Then you sell it to the employer.
Depending on the job you want - a degree is certainly not required.
Aviation can give that concrete experience base for other employment opportunities.
If you have the above skills from aviation then you can do other jobs and employers are looking for employees like you.
If you do not have those skills from aviation - you should probably leave aviation in the first place - at least professional aviation.
Please re-read what I posted, I'm not disagreeing with you, but what I am saying is those aviation skills and education are not enough to replace a good paying pilot job. You will need to have some other business or concrete experience and/or skill. If you are applying at a somewhat entry-level position, then yes, those aviation skills will make you more attractive.
05-10-2015, 01:51 PM
#229
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,261
The skills, backed by experience, and sold properly, are what get you the job.
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