kevbo

It seems like a lie from a rich kids perspective. See what an aviation degree and flight time is worth outside of a major airline.

TonyC

You have no clue what you're talking about. My parents could hardly afford a dozen high school graduation announcements, much less a college degree (and it wasn't related to aviation).

There is your lie V 2.0.


Losers enjoy company. Enjoy your wallowing.






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JohnBurke

It's a lie from any perspective.

If the degree is of no worth outside of a major airline (completely false), then why bother with the degree in the first place?

Flight time is worth a great deal if one wishes to fly corporate, utility, charter, fractional, or any other segment of the industry.

What on earth has it to do with riches? Few of us were ever "rich" upon embarking on our careers. Few of us claim to be now, nor is it about being "rich." The only two I've heard invoke any such reference are you, and skyhigh.

Skyhigh makes wild, outlandish claims, such his statement that 737 pilots were making 420,000 a year in 1988, and that airline pilots lived like kings, and he's oft stated that his goal has always been to work as little as possible, and make as much money as possible. For him, and apparently you, it's all about being rich, and any perspective on the industry is apparently colored from that bias.

The world is not nearly so two-dimensional that any such platform could withstand scrutiny, and it's no way to establish a valid point (especially when it's built around a lie, or on a bed of lies).

USMCFLYR

It is worth what you can sell to a future employer.
Plenty can sell their skills....many can not - it ihas little to do with the the industry.

This is the same lame logic used by some in the military who bemoan the skills learn as a Admin Clerk or Driver in the military for example. It probably even isn't the actual skillset that the employer might be interested in but rather other skills acquired while performing some of the more mundane jobs.

You look at the tenets of CRM and tell me that an employer would not be interested in them:

Quote:

Decision Making: Use good headwork, logical decision making, and sound judgment to solve problems.
Assertiveness: Actively participate and maintain a position until convinced by facts that other options are better.
Mission Analysis: Develop plans and contingency plans for missions, update.
Communication: Accurately receive and send information, commands, and feedback.
Leadership: Direct and coordinate activities of other crewmembers, encourage teamwork.
Adaptability: Alter a course of action to meet situational demands, anticipating changes.
Situational Awareness: Accurate perception of the factors affecting you, your crew, your aircraft, and your environment, both now and in the near future.

If you can't sell those traits then you probably deserve to be digging ditches or picking up trash on the side of the road; but don't blame aviation.

What a cop out.

kevbo

Being an E5+ or posessing an otherwise "BS" degree will let you be the one screaming at the ditch diggers. A cold consolation for not having a career.

bedrock

The cold facts are:

Plenty of 5-8 yr FO's earning less than 50K yr after 8 yrs.

Seniority system negative side means you can be "assertive" and "mission oriented" as you like, you still ain't going intothe right seat any sooner

You can join the union or mgmt track to mitigate the effects of this system, but those aren't flying jobs.

Guys who have been staying persistent and patient at the job could very well be furloughed for their trouble.

Changing 121 jobs means you go back to yr 1 pay, no reward for experience

Many, many factors simply oot of the pilot's control

Tolerating all this for yrs or even a decade looks like some kind of insanity or fanaticism is required.

The examples given for "successes" in aviation all involve people who have other skills outside aviation.

So, anyone entering the career, should be prepared for this kind of lifestyle and should have a another skill or job to fall back on.

Some people are fed up with having so little control over their career path and sacrificing for decades that they have either "outgrown" the love of avaition or have grown-up and realized that the sacrifice is too great.

Others hit it right and are on their way up the ladder to their dream job.

No one should enter this career uninformed; that is the road to disaster. Thankfully, due to the internet, the uninformed pilot applicant is mostly a thing of the past. Now can we stop the stupid culture war over this?

Rama

I hit my dream job at 46. The one before was ok, but not the best or worst.
Its a decent payoff, really could not be happier now.
It takes time, planning and a realistic view of the industry to be happy in an aviation career. Some hit the big time when they're fairly young, some never do.
Its still a crapshoot, but certainly a worthy career.

USMCFLYR

[QUOTE]
This issue being discussed is that aviation skills are worthless outside of aviation.

kevbo

[QUOTE=USMCFLYR;1875374] Yea, that just about covers it, at least at most places that I have been and here's why. Very few jobs are sufficiently difficult to require much in the way of talent or intelligence. Very few people have passion or originality, most are extremely narrow minded. If your interests and skills are in sync with your surroundings then everything is right as rain. Now, step outside your cornucopia and try to blend in with the sorry masses. You will find that nobody cares about aviation and everything that you know has zero relevance. Fitting in requires a lot of acting as you feign others interests. Your bosses boss may have an airplane but after a few minutes of conversation, turns cold because you made him insecure . This has been my experience since I left aviation. It was not an easy choice or transition. I once met a salty old Kalitta pilot that said, "Someone should have drown the Right Bros when they were babies". It seemed like a strange thing to hear from a DC8 cpt. I now agree wholeheartedly

TonyC

I'm beginning to think maybe aviation wasn't your problem.






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