JohnBurke

This is the lie that you peddle, and make no bones about it, your schtick is nothing but a bald faced lie. It's a soft peddle most of the time, but it's a lie all the same.

One never needs to get on with a legacy carrier. Many will go their entire career never flying with a legacy carrier. Many will go their entire career quite successfully never flying for a legacy carrier. It may have been your shattered dream (shattered because you quit), but it's most certainly not everyone's dream, nor is it a necessary component of a successful career.

Your lie is carefully crafted to say that if one doesn't achieve your former goal, then one won't make it. Anything else represents failure. Too bad you saw so little of the industry that you wouldn't know the truth were it to bite you squarely in the crotch. You apparently wouldn't know just how well one can live flying corporate, or any other segment of the industry. You claim you flew fire, but never seemed to grasp the ability to work a few months and live comfortably the rest of the year...no commuting, no bidding lines, nothing. Just living, with more time off than the vast majority of people in the country. Go figure, mate.

When you make it an either/or proposition, either flying for the legacy carrier or live a martyred life of divorce, barely scraping by and misery, you lie. It's quite simply untrue. If you make it true, it's your own damn fault, and you can't blame the industry, the employer, or anything else. Stop blaming the world for your own problems. Own them. Grow up. That's what big boys do; take responsibility for their own position in life, instead of trying to blame everyone and everything else.

Most importantly and central to the lie is that while you espouse these ideas, you wouldn't know if they're true, as you lack the experience to be credible on the subject, and it shows so very clearly.

How long shall you continue to subject us to the howling and wailing about your sad life, before you are satisfied that the world cries for you as a martyr?

SkyHigh

John Burke,

I took a spin about the rest of the forum recently and it seems that you are an equal opportunity opponent. A very busy beaver indeed. How to you have the time to support such a fan base?

Impressive, and I have been on these forums a long time.

In regards to your question; the rest of the world has been picking up the flag. The time is near when it will be common knowledge that this career is largely a trust fund babies folly.

Skyhigh

USMCFLYR

Pot calling the kettle black in the grandest manner!
My My the nerve you actually have to type this and post it in public.
At least JB doesn't purport to have "disciples" or "converts".

JohnBurke

I have no idea what you're talking about, and don't really care how long you've been on these forums. I only post to a few locations here, and have relatively few posts.

As an active pilot, however, it does make some modicum of sense that I might post in a pilot forum.

What you do defies explanation.

I wasn't aware of a "fan base." Isn't that something that teenagers on kiddie sites such as facebook worry about?

You didn't answer the question.

You do keep babbling on about "trust fund babies," however. In my career, I've met one person who used a trust fund to fly; it was a student whom I met when I was instructing. Just not a common thing in aviation.

Are you one such baby? You seem obsessed with this concept.

SkyHigh

I am forced to assume that you must be over 50.

Like I have said before we are all happy for you and your tales of hardship and eventual personal goal satisfaction.

I implore you however to put yourself into the shoes of an 18 year old who is considering the profession anew today from zero. In my home town they want $420/hour to rent a smoky old twin. The prospect of an aviation career is much more difficult for those embarking on the profession today. The cost of education and training is much higher and the added hurdles make it much more difficult to reach the middle class.

Try taking an honest look outside of your own universe to understand what it is like to be 23 and $150,000 in school and flight training debt and aviation is a grim prospect.

In regards to your equal opportunity opposition, you are all over the forum here seemingly fighting everyone at every level. It is a phenomenon that I have not encountered here before. You must have to pour a lot of time into maintaining the various strings of arguments that you have going here. Impressive.

SkyHigh

SkyHigh

I read an article recently from a European source whose position is that modern airlines can not afford to run psychological screens on airline pilot applicants since one must be in thin possession of reality in order to pursue the career in the first place. The author went on to explain what we all already know about the hardships of the profession, but still the concept, though possibly in jest, makes one think.

Proactive self preserving pragmatists do not embark on aviation careers much anymore. Usually it is the starry eyed dreamers who are apt to shun the facts and indulge in a dose of self delusion to get past the obvious barriers such as debt and statistics. In my experience aviation is less of a profession and more of a religion attracting idealistic peter pan zealots and martyrs. Most usually snap out of it near or just past graduation day when with clear eyes they survey the prospect of a life heavily in debt while woefully being underpaid.

When given the facts I believe that most avoid aviation careers. The hardships too great and rewards to slim. Conditions need to change if the profession is going to be able to draw more people as time goes forward.

Most likely however the airlines will do what they always have in that they will find a way to improve their position while making it harder on the employee. The Germanwings first officer only had 630 hours of total time. In Europe and Asia they hire zero time guys off the street and pay them regional wages to fly an Airbus. It is most likely an image of the future of what it will be like to fly for airlines in America soon.

Skyhigh

JohnBurke

Got something to back that up?

It certainly attracted you.

There is no bigger martyr here than you. In your experience, then.

kevbo

The price structure has changed too much over the last 25 years. In 1990 I was renting a 150 for $26/hr and an Apache for $65/hr wet. A multi/commercial could be had for $10K. State college was less than 10K/year. After that there was plenty of instructing, glider/banner towing, jumper, hot shot freight, and check running jobs around. Those entry level jobs are largely gone. Growth at the regionals took up the slack, for a while. So, where do we go from here? PT Barnum may have the best answer regarding new pilots.

SkyHigh

I certainly am passionate about aviation but the career was different back when I started. There was an easily discernible path to being able to support a family and to earn back the cost of the investment and then some. Flight training and tuition was much lower. The sacrifice was less. The regionals did not exist as the financial desert that one must cross and adds decades to career progression. At 1500-2500 hours you went to a legacy airline back then. Occasionally people did not even make it to graduation from college before being spirited off to a legacy airline.

It did attract me but what we have today most definitely would not have. At 32 years old and after working as a pilot since I was 19-20 I was stuck at a regional and wanted to get married. I knew that it was most likely my last chance to have a family and literally had to choose between my ill preforming career and overall life goals and dreams.

It should not have to be like that. Every regional pilot should earn more than a mailman. One could get stuck there for a very long time in the prime of their lives. It is a devastating to a persons ability to provide for a family, life, and financial stability.

SkyHigh

USMCFLYR

I thought back in the days you needed that amount of time to get hired by a commuter?
Or are you referencing some window of time when some unusual hiring practices were scattered about and you are portraying it as the norm?

That is much of the crux.............
You can't get by your own biases and projection of YOUR own ill fated career.
Assuming that your experiences with the career, and your overall life expectations, apply to everyone else.