JohnBurke

Wrong, no. It's not wrong. What's wrong is blaming the industry as some on this board are wont to do when they look back at a career attempt that they believe did not go their way.

Giving up in the early stages of an aviation career and calling it "cutting one's losses," however, is much like buying an automobile and turning it back in half-way through making the payments. Certainly one is "cutting losses," but the truth is that one simply hasn't finished making the necessary investment in the car.

The only person who can determine if the original poster is a failure is the original poster. If the original poster believes the industry failed him or her, then chances are that the original poster is a failure, or the cuase of a failure, with respect to the attempted career. If instead the original poster views his or her career attempt as an experiment in which he learned that it just wasn't for him, that her heart simply wasn't in it, or that the original expectations had been unrealistic and a reassessment of the future dictated a different direction, then one could argue that the original poster was successful in his or her endeavor.

It's their own fault.

We're the pilot in command. The buck stops with us. We don't guess. We don't suppose. We don't think we know. We know. We must know. We must not be in doubt. We don't blame the copilot. We don't blame the flight engineer. We don't blame anyone but ourselves, as we make the call, and we're responsible for the outcome. We don't wait for our ship to come in. We build it, and we sail it.

I'm working at my dream job. Such a job isn't an entry-level position, and frankly, I very much doubt that unless I get killed on the job, this will be my last. I'll enjoy the hell out of it while I can, and I'll make as much as I can, and I'll work as hard as I can, while I can. Then, if the situation dictates, I'll go find another dream job. I've had quite a few. I think that in every single case I've felt very grateful indeed to be there, and have been thankful for the job. This one is no different. I work for a great employer, a great operator, and job itself is...great.

Why isn't everyone else doing this job? I can't answer that, but I'm quite certain that everyone else doesn't want this job. Some might, and that's fine. I've found that axiomatically, as the proverb says, it's not really so much a matter of having what you want so much as wanting what you have.

JamesNoBrakes

Barefoot Bandit. Dream job. Just take it. John Burke would be proud.

JohnBurke

No, he really wouldn't.

Employees have done that at two different places where I worked, where the employer purchased and provided aircraft for employees to use to learn to fly. In both cases, demonstrating that a little learing is a dangerous thing, employees have taken the equipment and made off, eventually ending up in a field somewhere.

Not a big fan of barefoot flying or in general, bandits.

JamesNoBrakes

Wow, totally missed my point, but ok

Yoda2

Not to change the subject; though I have seen coworkers misappropriate aircraft as well. In all cases they were not company aircraft, but belonged to customers! One guy took a piston twin for a joyride, somehow made it back and further escaped prosecution... about three years later, THE SAME GUY, decided upon a late night lesson to teach himself how to fly a Bell 206; which ended in a rollover. He was also drunk... The guy eventually commited suicide. Many employers, including those who would like to, do not provide a company or training aircraft, to employees, solely due to liability issues. Many auto dealerships used to let salesmen take cars home for the evening. That practice has been largely discontinued for the same reasons. Somebody always ruins it for everybody.

AxialFlow

Some people have made the determination that past a certain point, the costs of being in the career outweigh the returns. Those people typically view a career as a means to help achieve bigger goals in life; nothing more. Purchasing an automobile is a bit simplistic as one has a choice in which vehicle they’re going to purchase. One doesn’t show up to the airlines with wet licenses and say “I’ll take the wide-body position with the high pay and good schedule, please”. Surely one can work towards that position. And it may take them a lifetime to get there. But no two paths are the same. Each person has to determine if the “juice is worth the squeeze”. That’s up to each individual and their goals and aspirations. Either way, aviation, as with any career, is one where somebody has to roll the dice and see if it fits them and their goals. I know one person who was remarkably “lucky” and only had to do 3 years at a regional before getting hired on at Southwest. There was nothing extraordinary about his credentials; he was in the right place at the right time. I also know an individual that was completely decimated financially at 58 years old when his carrier tanked and he had to start over at a regional. Only those two can judge their respective careers and career choices.


We’re in agreement on this. I don’t advocate the victim mentality and the “industry” certainly is not out to get people. The industry is what it is…

You answered this well enough in your paragraph above. I will make one addition: that the career wasn’t meeting goals and expectations. Certainly there are some unrealistic goals and expectations out there. But goals and expectations do have their place in every career. Each person has to make the individual determination if theirs are being met. Just like an approach: Sometimes the best option is to go missed and divert to the alternate.


Or another way: "We make ourselves rich by making our wants few"

flynavyj

As a guy who's worked with a lot of former pilots (both military and civilian) I've seen many different views regarding the state of our industry. This is from folks I've worked with who've gone from regional flying to major airline flying, and low cost airlines, others who've exited the career only to return, and many who've exited and are happy with life outside the airlines. That's life, and it's no one's fault to either pursue or not pursue a career in or outside of aviation, it's simply a choice.

No one will blame you for going around the storm to the North, or going around the storm to the South unless your airplane ends up getting busted, or you make the news....such is the situation with our careers. You're in control of the boat, if you decide that your aviation career isn't going to meet your personal/life goals, then it's your job to change that in the best way you decide. If that means you search for ways to increase your aviation experience to produce the lifestyle you want, so be it! If that means you start looking at dental school, so be it! That's personal choice, all this banter about "the industry didn't fail you, you've failed yourself" is making an unnecessary and inaccurate assumption that getting out equates to failing.

I haven't flown an airplane for hire in over 4 years. I've taken several flights during that time (albeit less than I'd like to) and have started "finding my way" in a totally different career path. I don't look at myself as being a failure, far from it. I've successfully completed a major transition from a systems operator to a "desk jockey", have drastically expanded my corporate marketability, taken on strategic and company planning opportunities, and expanded my resume in ways I never would have imagined while I was flying. My future endeavors are still very open, and career possibilities are nearly endless.

Just because you open one door doesn't mean the doors behind you close. Often times, opening that additional door reveals many more doors you can start peaking behind...and when it comes to opening doors, I'm just getting started

flynavyj

I guess the only thing I don't like about this statement is the connotation that the "unrealistic" provides. The biggest question would be, what do you expect from your career? I'm sure plenty of people would simply want to be able to have a nice home, car, family, and some security...but each of those is subjective. The idea that the goals are unrealistic, would make me think the person has the expectations to be a multi-millionaire, with a million dollar guarantee retirement, 10 acres of land in the city core, and a 8,000 square foot home.

So, I'm not going to say that unrealistic expectations are so much the issue, but a comparative analysis of career paths might lead more into it. If your goal was to make hundreds of thousands of dollars, you're in the wrong career path! If the goal is to make 100k in five years, you're likely in the wrong career path (although it might happen, depending on your individual situation, where you end up, and how well the company does).

A person owes it to themselves to be realistic, and to really analyze the industry and their prospects within it. I don't think the aviation offer a terrible career choice, and for some people it's the only choice.

Same time, I've often described the business as the best job I've ever had, and the worst career. That was my own personal assessment, and has nothing to do with your choice, your good fortune, etc...maybe it's my way of coping with getting out, and missing the heck out of the jet.

I think for me, my passion for flying was outweighed by my passion for controlling my destiny. Not worrying about medical certificates getting pulled, having to write an ASAP after a 16 hour work day, or my company merging with another and watching years of hard work go down the tube because of unions and the airline seniority system. I think a lot of pilots limit their opportunities by believing their only life involves the pointy end of the jet. The vast majority of military fliers do not continue in aviation in their civilian lifestyle, the pay simply doesn't equate. I've met plenty who 100% miss the cockpit, they miss the speed, the camaraderie, and the mission...but what each has said, is that the transition to a non-flying job wasn't nearly as difficult as they thought. Many of our aviation related skills, leadership experience, and performance under extreme pressure translate very well in and out of the cockpit, we're natural leaders, and strong decision makers. We use logic, and reason to the fullest, and analyze a situation prior to jumping to conclusions. They key (typically) is realizing that there is life after the cockpit...or for many, finding a way to stay plugged in, once they're on the outside.



It's their own fault.

We're the pilot in command. The buck stops with us. We don't guess. We don't suppose. We don't think we know. We know. We must know. We must not be in doubt. We don't blame the copilot. We don't blame the flight engineer. We don't blame anyone but ourselves, as we make the call, and we're responsible for the outcome. We don't wait for our ship to come in. We build it, and we sail it.

I'm working at my dream job. Such a job isn't an entry-level position, and frankly, I very much doubt that unless I get killed on the job, this will be my last. I'll enjoy the hell out of it while I can, and I'll make as much as I can, and I'll work as hard as I can, while I can. Then, if the situation dictates, I'll go find another dream job. I've had quite a few. I think that in every single case I've felt very grateful indeed to be there, and have been thankful for the job. This one is no different. I work for a great employer, a great operator, and job itself is...great.

Why isn't everyone else doing this job? I can't answer that, but I'm quite certain that everyone else doesn't want this job. Some might, and that's fine. I've found that axiomatically, as the proverb says, it's not really so much a matter of having what you want so much as wanting what you have.[/QUOTE]

pamberr

I was a captain for the same carrier for 21 years and abruptly put out on the street due to an "acquisition/merger". I took a truck driving course and drove an 18 wheeler for 6 months. Sleeping in the sleeper cab for 6 weeks at a time will make a Knight's Inn look like a Hilton! Got on with the newly "merged" airline as a new hire flying with "captains" half my age. Put up with that for 7 months until I was fortunate enough to find an "entry level" captain's job with a small supplemental. Times are tough for sure, but when they are and you're out looking for a job at the age of 57, you realize that age discrimination is alive and well!

ricosuave

There are many careers to pick up.