JohnBurke

I'm not one of them, and it's irrelevant.

It was crimsoneclipse who posited that those of us who recognize the fallacy of skyhigh's comments must have "got lucky 30 years ago."

Not so.

Skyhigh was not furloughed from US Air, nor did he/she return again and get furloughed again. Skyhigh's gospel is false and foolish, and well known.

I've worked for a number of operators who shut down, downsized, furloughed, closed, etc, and I've certainly been in the employment more than a few times. I dare say many more times than the majority of those furloughed at US Air, or many of the other places you might care to dredge up. There's no reason a single one of them couldn't have continued in the business.

I've continued at times as a mechanic, or in other capacities. I was once furloughed, working as an aircraft mechanic, and spoke with countless furloughed pilots who walked into the shop to look for work . At first they turned up their noses at getting dirty, and at the prospect of flying light airplanes on early morning cargo runs, or other duties that the company had. Soon they started coming back, more desperate, but by then the company didn't have the positions, and they lacked the qualifications. Few were mechanics, or instructors, or diverse enough to do the jobs that were available. Such is life.

I spoke with others who couldn't find work for extended periods. Some were trying to make it on unemployment. The smart ones took work where they could, even if it wasn't flying.

Skyhigh claims that he spent 20 years failing in the business, and that he came from a family of aviators, none of whom told him the truth about the industry, and that he was lied to by his flight instructors. He's told us that when he began flying, all airline pilots lived like kings and were the same as james bond. After 20 years, he decided he'd been duped, and found a new life where he could live like a king and mr. bond. Skyhigh has a lot of things to say about the business, and I haven't found a single incidence of truth is anything he or she has to say.

Skyhigh also tells us that all aviators live lives of solitary misery with no free time, no money, no family, in a small rented apartment full of cats. Skyhigh's mission is to dissuade all mankind from any involvement with aviation, and to paint the field as a tragedy in motion. He failed, and wants to drag the world down with him. Crimsoneclipse dismisses anyone who recognizes this as having "got lucky 30 years ago" and stands up in defense of skyhigh's foolishness. Such defense holds no water.

Certainly one may find one's self furloughed or out of work. Big deal. Move on.

flynavyj

Skyhigh definitely doesn't preach gospel, and there's plenty of rhetoric and degradation in his approach, but it's not all BS as well.

There is a degree of luck in aviation, or any business. No one in any industry has a crystal ball, and people who claim to know the "way of the future" often don't. Only time will tell you if your choice of airline was the correct one. Now this doesn't mean that a person should just blindly leap from one employer to the 1st airline that will take them, or that you won't encounter setbacks along the way...but in an industry with mandatory retirement, there is a shelf life on the dream...and depending on where you're at on that road, things could go from "ok, let's start over" to "game over" really really quick. To simply dismiss luck as perceived skill and foresight is naive at best.

Rnav

Whatever you want to call it whether "luck" or "destiny" things happen we have no control over. Medical issues can arise and you could be SOL and out of a job. But the key is not to cry over spilled milk. Again, you can't dismiss luck just like you can't say just because you work your butt off your guaranteed a spot at a "Dream job".

JohnBurke

No one here, least of all me, has done or said any such thing.

Luck, however, is irrelevant.

Skyhigh could just as easily have had a successful career, but having read skyhigh's posts, the reason for his or her failure is quite evident, and it has nothing to do with luck.

flynavyj

I can agree with that. During my decision making process with getting out, luck was a part of it. Luck was also a major part of me upgrading when I did, and it was part of the downgrade. Things I didn't have control over, just situations that arose that I had to adapt to.

The luck aspect showed up with several friends who in their mid 20's had health issues that barred them from flying. Each has had to find alternative careers as a result. This isn't really bad, just "The way life is, and how the industry works". I didn't want to depend on luck to keep my job, which is why I chose to look for a career outside of the cockpit.

Success in any industry is the result of determination, sacrifice, and preparation...But having and demonstrating all of the above is not a guarantee for success, just a prerequisite.

A friend and I disagree on the idea of "luck" on a regular basis. To him, luck is a man made phenomenon to describe preparedness and opportunity coming together at the same time. To me, it simply defines situations that are outside of your control despite the level of preparedness...It's the basketball spinning on the rim...your skill didn't make you sink the shot, nor did your lack of it make the ball bounce off...but whether or not the ball falls in the rim, or out is now out of your control. Good luck!

JohnBurke

When your friends had medical issues, they didn't rely upon luck to take the next step, did they? They made their luck. They sought out and found other work.

When I was medically unable, due to kidney stones, I quickly found work turning wrenches and did that until I was able to return to the cockpit. Not luck. Effort.

That's not luck. That's life. It happens.

If one waits a lifetime to upgrade and never does, one could say one is unlucky. One would be making excuses. One could leave that job and find another, or take a different route, or do one of many things to craft one's career. Waiting for luck to move it is much like waiting for a dump truck to stop while one is sitting in the road. One has the right of way, but it's still far from smart.

The key point is your statement that you adapted. You didn't sit in the road. You exercised dynamic judgement and did what you had to do. That's not luck. That's you.

There are no guarantees. Ever. Luck, however is nothing more than an excuse. Much like saying "I wish," what's really means is "I'm not motivated enough to make it happen."

Your handle is flynavyj. Are/were you a naval aviator? You know a something about making it happen.

I've often heard the saying that what we have in life is God's gift to us, and what we do with it is our gift to God.

I'd say that a closely related precept is that the circumstances that we encounter are life happening to us. What we do with them is us happening to life.

It goes both ways, but the intelligent dynamic in the room, the motive force and the intellect to decide, is us. Life is just clay. We mould it.

flynavyj

Well said.

Fluglehrer

J.B.,
Mould? Dude, do you have bad teeth, drink tea, and have a yearning to eat new potatoes and spotted dick?
Nothing wrong with that, I spent a few years on the moldy rock from '90 to '92. The English are great people -- 30 years behind and working half days to catch up -- but great people.
Your response was very understated and well written, by the way.

JohnBurke

Thanks for the assessment. My immediate family is English, Welsh, and Irish.

CrimsonEclipse

Pretty much this...

Sanctimonious... laughs.