Pilot shortage... Again!
10-21-2011, 09:40 PM
#321
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Winners never quit
Some here like to say that aviation is full of quitters and sad sacks. The path to success in aviation lies with a strong attitude and shielding yourself from all forms of negative information. Never quit they say and you will reach your dreams.
The fact is that it takes a lot of luck and circumstances that are beyond our control to make it to the big time in aviation. Where does one draw the line? At what point does earnestness become self destructive? When does passion cross the line into addiction? Where is the logic in continuing on a failing path?
I think that the term Winners Never Quit means something other than merely blinding yourself to the reality around you. It means to have the courage to see the truth and be ready to start over if necessary.
Here is another one: Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.
Skyhigh
The fact is that it takes a lot of luck and circumstances that are beyond our control to make it to the big time in aviation. Where does one draw the line? At what point does earnestness become self destructive? When does passion cross the line into addiction? Where is the logic in continuing on a failing path?
I think that the term Winners Never Quit means something other than merely blinding yourself to the reality around you. It means to have the courage to see the truth and be ready to start over if necessary.
Here is another one: Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.
Skyhigh
10-22-2011, 03:54 AM
#322
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
HercDriver130,
Nothing in life is guaranteed. Aviation has always had some thorns but my point is to take a hard look at where things are going and from where they have been. You have been on the job for only a few months now. In a few more months your family will get use to you being gone.
I ask myself if it is worth the 60K it pays to be a widebody FO at a second or third tier company? It is easy to look back on decades in the right seat if there is a retirement check in the mail that was delivered to a paid off house.
What kind of a future is that 60K and no retirement going to buy? I for one would have jumped at the chance to be a flight engineer for 10 years right out of college then spend another 15 in the right seat prior to upgrade. The whole while living in the same house and building years in a retirement.
As you mentioned in the past 30 was the cut off age. More of a mercy killing really. At least then you knew that your chances were over. Since then the airlines have blown the lid off just about everything else; age, height and weight requirements, 20/20 uncorrected vision, there are few restrictions to entry anymore. It really has opened the job market up to just about anyone. An empty nester soccer mom who sends her last kid off to college could now find herself in the right seat of an RJ in six months if she wanted.
Add to that modern automated planes and what you have is a market where pilots are not worth anything anymore. management can hire whom ever they want, treat them like garbage and dare them to leave. Pilots are paid more for what they will do over what they can do. The situation we face today is much more than a few thorns. It is not even close to being equitable for most.
You say that the "bonus is being home nearly 2 straight weeks every month". Forgive me if I don't seen the bonus. You use to be home everyday.
Skyhigh
Take care Sky....
10-22-2011, 03:57 AM
#323
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
Been married to the same woman for nearly 27 years thats not changing anytime soon. 14 years of that as a professional pilot, no problems here. You will notice I said it works for MY family I speak for no one else. Oh, and I don't think aviation has a lock on infidelity.
10-22-2011, 04:44 AM
#324
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
USMCFLYR,
I have been out for some time but you have never really been in. You were a military officer who flew planes and now an employee of the FAA. It is not the same as having to make a living as a pilot. Your wisdom was demonstrated again when you choose away from civilian aviation after your separation.
Skyhigh
I have been out for some time but you have never really been in. You were a military officer who flew planes and now an employee of the FAA. It is not the same as having to make a living as a pilot. Your wisdom was demonstrated again when you choose away from civilian aviation after your separation.
Skyhigh
No - I don't think that there is any question about you being out.
This is your same argument that you use everytime I ask about your qualification to make such statements, which you never answer.
I'm not the one saying that I no anything about airline aviation - other than the airline pilots that I have been around for 20+ years and hearing their stories. I guess that makes me an expert in your book since you are so fond of quoting everyone else's stories.
So the question remains Sky. If the 20 year legacy captain is so out of touch with the industry - which he is still in at least - why do you feel yourself so connected to an industry that you haven't been involved in. Why is his word any less accurate and your's the holy grail?
I make a living now flying airplanes Sky. I've finally reached professional aviation. As mentioned a few times throughout this forum, there are many different avenues of professional aviation other than airline flying, but you make no distinction in your "truths".
About HercDriver130 - did you actually contend that he use to be home every night
Maybe you failed to notice his username. That ranks up there near the top of your wild assumptions! HMP - it sounds like you are already accusing HP130 (or his spouse) of infidelity. Wow.
USMCFLYR
Edit - guess I should read all of the posts before answering.
Nice answers HP130. I was beginning to winder if you were close personal friends with Sky or HMP since they had such detailed insider information about you and your life.
10-22-2011, 06:04 AM
#325
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,726
I've been with one Major airline or another for 17 years. I've been married to the same lady for 18 years.
I guess I'm out of touch as I am not a distraught property manager who'd never worked for a major airline. And who, apparently, grew up in a neighborhood chalked full of dysfunctional looser airline captains and attended the very best aviation "school" in America yet they pumped him full of lies and then kicked him out at the curb just shy of aviation Nirvana? I hope I got all of that right because those are the reoccurring themes in SH's posts.
Skyhigh your arrogance knows no bounds. When you dogmatically lecture senior airline pilots about an industry that you never progressed in..AMAZING simply amazing.
I guess I'm out of touch as I am not a distraught property manager who'd never worked for a major airline. And who, apparently, grew up in a neighborhood chalked full of dysfunctional looser airline captains and attended the very best aviation "school" in America yet they pumped him full of lies and then kicked him out at the curb just shy of aviation Nirvana? I hope I got all of that right because those are the reoccurring themes in SH's posts.
Skyhigh your arrogance knows no bounds. When you dogmatically lecture senior airline pilots about an industry that you never progressed in..AMAZING simply amazing.
10-22-2011, 06:29 AM
#326
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FO - 757/767
Posts: 1,228
Infidelity aside, is it really fair to leave (abandon) ones family/spouse et al for two consecutive weeks each and every month? A few (more than a few) ANC crew have pondered this thought the last couple of years.
10-22-2011, 06:37 AM
#327
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Infidelity aside, is it really fair to leave (abandon) ones family/spouse et al for two consecutive weeks each and every month? A few (more than a few) ANC crew have pondered this thought the last couple of years.
I've spent 20 years in the Air Force, and now I commute. We home school our kids...when I'm home I do nothing but activities with my family. My wife says she sees me more now, as a commuter, then when I was in the Air Force.
10-22-2011, 06:37 AM
#328
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
USMCFLYR
10-22-2011, 07:56 AM
#329
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
More family time?
Being home for stretches at a time does not equate to more family time. As pilots our schedules can have us off for days in a row. Often (usually) it is during the week. The problem is that most spouses are at work and kids at school. The pilot get time with the family in the morning (unless they are trying to sleep off a massive time zone change) and then for a bit at night. During the day they are left alone to mow the lawn or to get ready for the next trip once the weekend comes.
Pilots are out of sync with the rest of society. Most people usually go to work at the same time and are generally off at the same times (M-F, 9to5). As a result of having matching schedules there is opportunity for a social and family life. Face time hours are where it counts. The ability to plan time off with others is where the benefit lies. Sitting on the couch waiting for the rest of the world to come home does little towards family time.
Skyhigh
Pilots are out of sync with the rest of society. Most people usually go to work at the same time and are generally off at the same times (M-F, 9to5). As a result of having matching schedules there is opportunity for a social and family life. Face time hours are where it counts. The ability to plan time off with others is where the benefit lies. Sitting on the couch waiting for the rest of the world to come home does little towards family time.
Skyhigh
10-22-2011, 08:02 AM
#330
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
The problem
There in lies the problem sky...you want to make 250k a year, be home EVERY night, and never be put out with your job. It just doesn't work that way in aviation dude.... I know of very FEW aviation jobs where pilots make TOP dollar and are home every night. please get real. Oh... and please don't bake it sound like this is my first rodeo, I spent 7 years flying in the military, much of that time gone and deployed flying in ****holes around the world. I then spent another 3.5 years flying for regional 121 carriers, and another 3 years flying in corporate/charter aviation, and now yes I have been at my current company 5 months. And yes, I will only make 60k my first year... 70k my second....and by year 4 90k (under our old contract) but we also have guys with just over a year on property who have bid for and are upgrading.
Take care Sky....
Take care Sky....
Skyhigh
PS In addition I never wanted to be a long haul pilot at any time for any amount of money. As one of my former co-workers put it "the 747 goes to far and can stay airborne for too long".
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